Chain of Memories Chain of Memories is the Best KH Game, I Just Didn't Notice

I'll state now, the original was better than the Re:CoM.

I actually thought it wasn't that coherent. The original was confusing first time through, the whole memory thing and all these phrases of 'To find is to lose and to lose is to find' were trying to create a mysterious atmosphere in the story, it padded for a long time like we did'nt know what was happening. MAybe it was a thing aimed at kids, but it muddied the central theme for far too long in the beginning. I don't think I actually understood the game till a few years after first playing it.

I did like the themes of confused identity, an unwrapping past, memories, the ideas of nothingness, the usual heart, friendship, darkness, etc.

The only good characters were the Org, mysterious, unknown and with obscure goals, differing personalities and objectives, etc. Sora and the gang were the same characters, find the girl and wipe away the debt- I mean, find their friends, and go back home. Riku had the better characterisation but I feel like that was because we knew little about Riku's personal insight on things not being the main character of the previous game, not necessarily because he was setup well, I mean the whole darkness thing could've been extended a bit more for the audience to relate.

The card system is highly exploitable, and it limits what you can do compared to others games. It felt really slow too, I've watched videos, and at times you just have enemies and Sora standing around loading up a sleight, it feels like the pace was sacrificed to experiment with the card system. It's also hard to dodge, load a sleight, read your card value, remember what sleight values are whilst fighting a boss. It's a lot of information to remember. If you pre load your deck to make sleights easily accessible, you have the problem of them not being useful against all enemies, or the fact you can only use them once in the battle before reloading the deck and all your pre loads have been eliminated so your stuck with basic card types again. You also spend about an eighth of your game time editing your deck. Kingdom Hearts gameplay is about the combat to me, and the platforming aspects, yet we're left with a sub par strategy game mixed with an action RPG, just way too many elements in my mind, clogs up the flow.
The levelling system also doesn't really give you much control, raising HP and AP could mean that if you level one up, you're really boned when you get to a point in the game, when you need more HP to take on an attack, or need more Cars to use more sleights. Sleights should not be level restricted in my mind, they should progress with Sora developing his memories, getting his skills back, it's a waste of a level up.
The game also promotes a lot of grinding, you only get new room cards through fighting, you only get special cards by fighting in special rooms, you have to fight to get Moogle points to buy new cards. it's not something you progress with over time, it's something you have to work on. And that's not good for a game, where you have to work so it can reward you by doing the same activities. It shouldn't feel like work.
MY biggest gripe is using the exact same worlds again. Feels like a cop out and a re hash, not a proper sequel, which I could get when it was only on the GBA, but now it just doesn't feel right on consoles. Lacked originality in a lot of areas.

 

Re:CoM is a watered down version of CoM. There are minor changes throughout that collectively take away from the greater whole.

Don't get me wrong, I love Re:CoM. I have a ton of great memories tied to it. However it's not quite as up to snuff compared to the first.

 

I've often rear around here that CoM>>>> RE:CoM , but I start thinking it was a rumor that someone said once and everybody started repeating after... I've played both, but didn't saw all this genius raw material at CoM that wasn't at RE:CoM if possible could you illustrate with some scene?

----

@Peace: I don't think you are "playing it right", when you learn all about the game you don't need to worry that much about the lost cards.. any variation of Potion/Elixir recovers all attacks cards (even the ones used in sleights), you can plan a inside deck as well ( if there was "1-2-3" than put the next "2-1-3" so it stays "2-3-1" when you lose both firsts cards etc..). Also when you already planned your deck you don't need huge HP, you could invest in CP only and never take a hit (as your attacks breaks the enemy attack)... The only problem is when you play as riku and you don't control your DECK, but as he has fewer sleights it is easier to remember... also the 3D aspect of Re:CoM , makes it easier to run while looking for the "right cards" avoiding damage.

 

But it was intentional. None of what they said was true, they were trying tp confuse Sora, and if you were confused, then you were confused right alongside him. For a long time I believed, and indeed many people still believe, that Castle Oblivion itself is what caused memories to be the cause of the memory loss. The whole way the Organization set themselves up as more like guardians or testers as opposed to outright antagonists until later in the story was quite possibly the only effective and successful plan in the entirety of the Organization's history.

You realize you just said "The only interesting characters are six out of twelve featured in the game" right? 50/50 is a pretty good track record for a KH game, and even then I'd disagree. CoM's Sora is very interesting, if you ask me. It's definitely the most flawed and vulnerable Sora we've seen. Riku Replica's story is far from unique, but I think it lead to some interesting moments. There have only been two moments in the entire franchise where the characters discuss the ramifications of death, and I'd take Repliku's death over Roxas talking to Xigbar any day. Mickey Donald and Goofy don't really have much to offer, just sort of the way of things with Disney in KH unfortunately, though this is the one game that really shows Riku and Mickey, as well as Sora Donald and Goofy being somewhat believable friends. Stuff like Sora joking about Donald whacking him on the head, never mind them actually supporting Sora in a meaningful way when he starts to uncover his memories. DiZ barely factors into the story so I don't have much to say about him.

Highly exploitable? Sure. Why is that a bad thing? Every KH game has something exploitable about it. Magnet and reflect in KH2, command melding in BBS. I'd actually say DDD is the worst offender in that regard because all it takes is a special card to exploit the system. I heartily disagree about it limiting what you can do though. As I said in my earlier post, this is the ONLY KH game where you can truly play alternate styles. You CAN load your deck with magic instead of attack cards. You CAN rain summons down on your opponents. You can unleash a neverending torrent of flashy moves, you can stick to your basic combos, and there's a bunch of additional things you can do by utilizing enemy cards wisely. Comparatively, all the other games limit you far more. Summons are all but worthless in KH1, and you're in for a rough time if you try relying on magic. Everything in KH2 that isn't your basic attacks is just extra fluff if you want to make the game even easier. Days' inventory and panel systems limit you INSANELY. BBS, sure you can set up a command deck, but it takes a while to even get enough slots to do anything with it, and even then you have what, 8 moves? And if you want to use cool moves, you'll need to use two slots. D Links force you to use other, boring moves, and shotlocks are completely unbalanced. Re:Coded is basically just a gimmicky BBS, and DDD is basically just BBS but worse.

Wait, have you not played the game?

This is actually common throughout all of KH. If you actually just stand around, you'll notice that every enemy in any KH game with generally do a LOT of waiting. It's only when you're in the middle of the action that it'll seem like things are happening. At leas in CoM it serves a purpose, by giving the game a more methodical pace, speaking of which...

Didn't you just say the enemies are too slow? How is it that battles are too hectic, yet too slow at the same time? Anyways, to me at least, that sounds like a good challenge. Reacting to enemy attacks, some light micromangement and paying attention to detail? It made the bosses a lot more interesting to me, as opposed to the spam-fests fights tend to be in KH

If your deck is set up to use lots of sleights, you're going to mow through regular enemies. And you don't HAVE to use the sleights either, the individual cards are still perfectly good. With a few exceptions it's always clear when a boss fight is coming, and it's also generally fairly clear what will be effective against an enemy, once you see them, so if you fail the first time it's simple enough to redecorate your deck with that fight in mind. The toughest fights are the Organization fights, who all have very handy elemental colour coding, so if Axel is causing your trouble, it's not that hard to figure out you should be loading your deck with some blizzard.
Also, there are plenty of cards that make reloading a non-issue.

And you spend even more than that editing your deck in BBS. It's kind of the cost of having high customization.

Fair enough

what

Having strategy, a strategy game make not. Just because you have the ability to form strategies in a game doesn't magically turn it into a strategy game. CoM is an action RPG. And it's the least clogged system in KH. You just get cards. Every other KH game throws a torrent of gameplay features at you and hopes one works.

As opposed to those other KH games that gave you lots of control over your levelling? It's completely automatic in enarly every KH game, and in every game after KH1 there isn't a reliable way to get more HP if you need it. The point of CoM is to give you control. If you're confident in your ability to not get hurt, you can get yourself some more CP, obviously psot players should find a balance.

They're not all level restricted. Plenty to get some treasure chests, and a few from events. I don't really see how increasing your combat repertoire is a 'waste' though. In fact, that leads to an annoying part where you're simply denied the right to use certain abilities becuase you're not at the right part of the game yet.

That's silly. How do you get items in any other KH game? How do you get money? Also, you're just downright wrong about the special cards thing. There's no special room you go to to get special cards by fighting. there are, however, special rooms you can get to to get cards WITHOUT fighting. You said the most important part of KH is combat, so why is it bad that the game is focused on combat?

I'm starting to feel like we're playing different games. What KH game doesn't reward you for doing the same repetitive tasks? Every game that I played spent most of its time fighting through hordes of identical enemies, and that was the GOOD part. When I wasn't fighting enemies, I was doing absolutely terrible mini games.

It's not a true sequel. That's what KH2 was. CoM was a low budget bridge game. Even on consoles, it was a very budget title. It didn't release at full price.
But I do feel like this game treated its rehashing with a certain dignity. They tried to make it worthwhile and give an explanation.

 

Valid points all, and this is why I don't get the hate for it. Not my favorite in the series but you could do far worse.

I think people get upset with it because it doesn't play like KH, but it was only the second game in the series; there wasn't a definitive KH system at the time, really. It was nice to see them experiment. It's just unfortunate that everyone bucked against it, otherwise we might've seen more of such experiments.

The one thing I'll say about the combat is that it's much simpler than the action-RPG formula; there's still strategy in picking a solid, well-rounded deck, but in practice it boils down to canceling all your opponent's moves and making your own uncancellable. You can essentially win a fight before it starts if you have the cards for it. It's not a bad formula, per se, and the simplicity is fitting for a GBA title, but it's not something I'd play over and over for that reason. More of a passing fancy.