Believe what you want, you are allowed your beliefs in peace.

Working from the evidence which we can gather is all that we can do. If it is inaccurate then further study will expose it. That is the difference between scientific method and faith. When something is found out to be wrong in science it is dropped and the new theory taken up (notice that science does not have the audacity to say that everything it says is right and true, they are theories which are correct only until proven otherwise). With faith, it doesn't matter how much conflicting evidence there is, it is still believed to be true. I think that is wrong.

I completely agree with everything said in Replikus post. As usual, he manages to sum up everything I am trying to say, and then say it better than I ever could lol

 

Religion is not something to fall back on. Religion is a way of life for many people. Having none, I can understand that you would not know this, I just want to make it clear.
I look out for myself. I don't rely on a God that I'm not sure exists. God will help me when I need him. I intend to make sure I don't.

Repliku, please stop writing profound earth-shattering essays-er-opinions. They completely destroy any potential for argument because after you post, there is nothing left to say.

 

Your missing the point of what I am saying. I'm saying what if our human brain is limited or logic is not the answer to what is really out there, what if Science is wrong because scientists look at science from only a logical viewpoint, when so many other viewpoints could show that Science is false. The logical reasoning concept is flawed, though not obvious it has them.

 

Sure there is. You can type your own opinions too. I will say this and it'll be short! In the end, Bunterx, you, me, PAW..what we've all put are opinions. Can we still respect one another? Our religious views aren't all that makes us who we are, as is the point I was trying to point out. Some people though -think- that is the truth and these are the people we need to actually worry more about. The ones who feel the religion makes the man/woman are the ones who need to be scrutinized. These are the people that try to use people or are being used themselves in a cult/gang manner. Most of us, regardless of religious beliefs can try to get along and open up debates or choose not to. If these radical sorts could learn that, we wouldn't have the problems we do.

 

It is true, but seriously, you named me last? I feel so unloved!! ;o;

But yes, it is the person that makes it happen, not the actual relegion, depending on their word choice and charisma, people could follow the most lame relegion till they fall off the edge of the earth, if you get my pun. It shouldn't be about that we are divided by faith, but be united by causes or countries, and agree that a calm and level-headed debate is the best thing.

 

Lol, that was meant to be a joke. But you're right. Everyone can type something.
I don't feel that religion is all you are, but indeed, there are people who feel that way.

 

Exactly, peoples religious beliefs should not be them. They are much better than that. I want to meet a person, not their religious beliefs. I was also brought up to judge a person by their character and personality not by their religious beliefs, and when you come from a country where knowing where someone is from automatically makes them form a like or dislike of you it is rather important.

But, if you meet someone who makes all you meet their religious beliefs, what are you to base your opinions of them on?

 

i don't think it's right to treat the 2 year old kid and triangle thing and the Chrisitainty issue as though they were the same thing. because they're really not the same issue. it would be right to correct the child because their belief is actually wrong seeing as the world isn't a triangle. the Christinaity issue, there is no right/wrong about it so it wouldn't be right to "correct' them because no one knows if it is right or wrong.

 

Well, that is judging their perosnality. People who speak of relegion constantly and not of themselves are usually trying to tell you their personality whether you/they know it or not. They show they are loyal, devot and maybe even a little zealous about their relgion depending on word choice in a conversation. Some people push relgion on others because they want to save them from sin because they love them a selfless act or shove it in their face because they want more followers to join for selfish reasons. You can tell alot about a person from a relegion or lack of, like most relegious people see atheists as people who hate relegion or God (and no offense here, your giving that feeling off here) while others say that are 'devoted' say they are sinners and unworthy because they have no belief.
As much as you might think relegion doesn't define a persons personality, it can usually give you more of persons personality than most atheists, I mean I can tell from your posts since you live in a society where relegion is continaully at war, you see it as a problem too people, while an area where relegions are in harmony, they can be seen as a blessing.
It depends on what the society is like, what other relgions inhabit the area and the way a person grows up with relegion, helps identify a highly relegious persons personality.

 

What is wrong with hating god? Or hating religion for that matter? They are not human. No humans are harmed, none are hated. So what is the problem? Religion is an idea and a tool, nothing more. There have been many hated ideas throughout history, why does religion have such a taboo about it? If I want to hate it I will go ahead and hate it. But I will not hate its followers, unless they give me reason to.

There are plenty of people, Christians, who I like and are my good friends. Just because they have a belief that I hate and abhor does not mean that those feelings carry through to them. They are two completely separate "entities" and I wish people would keep them that way.

 

PAW, being religious does -not- make it easier to identify a person -as- a person. That crosses over to stereotypes that I would think anyone would be upset at, whether they are religious or not, unless the person is a zealot that only prefers to be known as a religious being and show nothing else to others.

It is very easy to read people whether religious or not. There are countless people that believe or don't believe in -any- religion and yet they show to others an array of depth. Christian, Buddhist, Atheist, Muslim, etc aren't ways to determine how a person will be. They are classifications and a person who declares the affiliation with any does not mean that person is a 'good' person. I don't want to think along the stereotypical lines to identify the type of person by just religion because it doesn't hold true always.

I.e. Every type of religion has a stigma attached to it as does a lack of religion. Depending on the viewer, a person could judge someone unnecessarily harshly or too light based on religious affiliation and not -care- what is deeper. That's prejudice and stereotyping.

Christian - a person who is devoted to God above family, friends and all else and act as though they are martyrs out to save everyone's soul while harassing them. A person that says God's will is the explanation for natural events that happen in nature and a person that chooses to believe in nothing but what the Bible tells them and calls anyone who disagrees a heretic. Hates gays, can hate race etc.
- a blanket statement of prejudice that is often untrue.

Muslim - Belonging to the Islamic faith, these people promote terrorism and martyrdom and take advantage of youngsters, filling their heads with ideals to hate anyone not of Islamic faith. Their way is violence and until their religion is the only one there, they will know no peace. Islamic followers look at all Western Civilizations as the devil.
- another prejudiced closed-minded thing to say that is untrue often.

Atheist - a person that hates God and religion and worships instead science. They are out to prove to everyone that God doesn't exist and take away any public displays of religion to push their beliefs along and try to brainwash kids out of religion through science and education.
- another prejudiced and biased stereotype.

Religion is -not- a way to justify things because on the same note I can say it this way, I can also go over positive on it, like this:

Christian - a caring, loving individual that spreads the word of God while helping to heal the wounds of life, devoting time to charity and giving to the less fortunate. Being a caring, loyal person by rearing, you can trust them to not lie to you or leave you out to dry at your worst moments.
- Some may fit this and it is still a stereotypical prejudiced statement without enough analysis.

Muslim - A person devoted to an often misunderstood religion that has a different take on the monotheistic faith and takes Judaism and Christianity to the next level. Their lives are devoted strongly to their faiths and therefore their ways of life are more devoted to God, which gets others to attack them and their way of life wrongfully. They suffer by stigmas brought onto them by Christians and Jews who refuse to grow and let their faiths mature.
- Many Muslims are excellent people, be assured but to write off and say none do wrong and are prosecuted by others is another stereotypical thing I hear often.

Atheist - A person that disbelieves in Gods of any kind and believes that people should be charitable out of true sincerity and not for religion. A person that seeks equality for all people regardless of race, gender etc and feels that a loving nature can be found in anyone and life is to live in the time and that they've found enough evidence to suggest living life now to the fullest is better than stories of the past that probably aren't true. Being real to be real and good to be good is better than having an outside reason to do so.
- There are atheists who feel this way but to be real there are also atheists who feel that people can be as good -or- as bad as you want to be because there's nothing out there to give them discipline but the law.

So you see, my point is this. Religion, based on who's judging it can think worse or better of someone just because it is followed or not. It is an 'identifier' to class someone but it should definitely NEVER be a sole way of determining how a person will be because we as a people are way too judgmental on the issue of religion and we are prone to make mistakes about a person. We will often be too strong or too lenient based on someone's religious views and in seriousness I think you could learn more of a person by chatting with them on various other topics such as politics, what's going on in the world, what kind of music they like, what are their favorite entertainment things to do or hobbies, what they really feel about animal 'rights', what their views on criminals and the legal system are, etc. A person can be a great person and of any religious faith or lack thereof. A person can be a real jerk regardless of their religious background and some use the religion as an excuse. If the person isn't a 'fanatic' about the religion, using religion as an identifier fails because that person is easily going to be more complex and would want to actually be recognized for more. They want to also be seen as a talented writer, a singer, a business person, a lover of music, a lover of animals, etc. It's no wonder to me so many people feel 'no one understands them'. They won't be properly seen for the person they are if judged in this way.

I have several friends who are of religious faiths or lacks of them and can say if I had judged them or they had judged me based on religion, probably right now I'd lose about at least half of my friends. Having core beliefs of being truthful, honest, loyal, benevolent, compassionate, dependable etc doesn't just come from believing in a religion and those who think so are prejudiced; easy as that. A person has to -want- to be these things to make them core beliefs. Religion or lack of it has also given people the right to be superior to others, elitist, fanatical, and has caused great wars because it's so simple to judge someone on religion apparently just as it is to judge someone based on the color of skin, gender, sexuality, etc. These other things are often viewed as wrong to judge someone by and I believe strongly that religion too is not a fair way to assess the personality of anyone. Just because a few people may be really great and claim they belong or don't affiliate with a religion is certainly not a justification to say that people of -all- that religion/or not of a religion are that way. The same holds if people do horrible things that affiliate with that religion. Not all Muslims wants to be seen as a terrorist automatically because some do that deed. Not all Christian wants to be seen as a zealous nutjob burning Harry Potter books and stealing and also picketing outside the funerals of soldiers or gay people because some do. Not all Atheists wants to be seen akin to the ones who yell down with all religions and make them illegal and send religious people to nut houses. I'd wager MOST of the people of these groups don't want this, because each of these views are of fanatical people that are not being benevolent, kind, truthful, loyal etc. Most of us just want to socialize, be happy, live our lives and not worry about labels at all; judging individuals instead of lump grouping people based on a certain quality. That's how we make friends with people who aren't of the same religions in the first place. Now if only our great leaders and those who are closed-minded would pick up on it, the world could be a better place.

 

First of all, one of the longest posts of seen of yours, congrats.

Second, it's a persons choice whether they see a relegious person as a stereotype or not. The observations of a person should be clear enough to tell how far or deep a relegious person they are, for example, if you were to ask a priest how they would describe themselves as a relegious person. Some priests might say they are just a follower of God or a priest who says the are a devoted person who banishes evil and strips away the sins of humanity. Now out of those 2 you can see who is more the stereotype and who seems like a down to Earth person. THe word choice is crucial whether it is about relgion or not, but the way they use the words also adds deeper meaning. I guess whether it is about Relegion or not, telling someones perosnalities is difficult, but a relegion or lack of, can help you point to that person personality, though it doesn't give you the whole picture, I am sure.

 

My point is that -everyone- has an opinion already gathered if you use the religion as a way to base an opinion off someone. Either positive or negative based on your own fundamental beliefs so that is not a fair characteristic to judge people. Taking religion out of it and looking at what the person by asking them other things helps much more.

Just taking Christianity..if someone says he/she is Christian, you will already think up things either too positive or negative to be fair. So if you move past that and actually ask some other pertinent questions you will come to more answers. Someone saying they are Christian doesn't mean they totally adhere to every word in the Bible. Also, they may believe in God and Jesus and not go to church. They may be zealous in nature and follow the book to the 'T'. They may have taken what they feel is most important from the book. They may be criminals and feel they will be forgiven in the end as long as they ask forgiveness to Jesus for their sins. You still don't get a very good idea...

So instead of focusing on that avenue why not ask the person such questions as...
Is a lie acceptable if it helps save someone's life?
When is stealing okay?
Is murder ever justified?
What are your thoughts on the government?
What do you think about animal rights?
What are your thoughts on offshore drilling?
Were you raised in a good family setting?
Would you cheat on a spouse or gf/bf?
What are your things you hate?
What is your stance on religious views others have?
Do you like or hate what humanity has done in recent years?
What is your stance on war?
What kind of music inspires you most?
Do you draw or do some other artistic talent?

etc. These kind of questions delve more into a person rather than taking the shortcut and just automatically labeling someone based off a religion because even if someone identifies himself/herself as belonging to a religious stance, that person can be quite different from an 'assumed' stereotype. Getting viewpoints of people helps you find similarities to yourself whereas just going off a person's religion may isolate the two people. I hope that makes more sense at what I am getting at.

 

I agree, but I did not mean to imply that someones relgion can tell you everything abou them, I mean only that it is only one aspect of the human mind, a way to grasp an opinion of someone and then delve further in.
Though, I am not sure about you, those questions rarely come up in any conversation, in fact I don't think many people would even think of asking such questions, though I would love to ask them directly, many would be wary to answer or not care.

 

That proves a point in itself. The questions which Repliku listed would delve into what the person is really like. Working out what someone is like from their religion is just looking at the shallow exterior. There are plenty of people out there that consider things like going to church to make them "good people" when they are complete asses to everyone and anyone the rest of the time.

Judging someones personality by something like religion, it doesn't even go through the skin.

 

What he said. My point was if more people actually -asked- these questions to people instead of stopping at 'what religion are you?' then we'd understand each other a lot more. I -do- ask people these things because if they are to be friends, I'd like to know we have -some- things we stand familiar on and if I don't stand on the same ground, I'd like to know what is offensive etc to that person. Some people do actually like to get to know people more than just what religion they are. It is not a way to tell much about the person without superimposing some stereotypical view. I also believe that most people -want- to be known for who they are and not -what- they are. That's how real friendships and peace begins. Tolerance sure, but also knowing people for who they really are.

 

Funny how people can bad mouth christianity all they want... The second
you make fun of jews or say hitler rocks... your....RACIST!!!!!!

 

Me neither but there's not much you can do on a larger scale.
You can't force people to abandon their beliefs, especially if they genuinely believe in them.

I remember that a good friend drew a cartoon of Jesus in his infamous crucified pose but instead of that he was caught in a web with a spider approaching. At the very bottom of the web the threads were woven as to reveal the message "LEARN TO THINK". If we still had it we could make flyers of it and put them in people's mailboxes.
I think that wouldn't be such a bad idea. The people can still decide for themselves whether to open their eyes or not.

 

That would be wrong too though. Yes, we get mail from religious groups constantly here and it is quite annoying that they don't have to pay postage etc and can just pop something in your box whenever. Others who aren't religious doing so also is wrong to do in my opinion.

In the end, I have no qualms with people believing in religions, so long as it doesn't deter children from having the right to grow up and believe in what they want and also that child is not harmed by parental opinions such as gays are bad, children who don't follow their religion are disowned or abused etc. There are way too many children abused by religious fanatics all of the time for people to go and say that religion isn't scarring. I know. I'm one of the kids that had to get over a lot because I didn't follow along the straight path given to me and decided to question things instead. Exploring mythos and Buddhism labeled me a Satanist since I was 13 because zealots do not understand that other religions outside Christianity are not made by the devil.

I'm up for letting people believe in whatever but also think that those who want such things as the 10 Commandments in schools and courts or any governmental facility should be told simply 'no'. Any alterations to the school curriculum that includes Creationist philosophy that is not in a World Religions Class to teach students about religions of the world should also be told flat out 'no'. Most of the people who have 'problems' with other religions etc happen to be the very religious people themselves. I don't feel it is right in any way to acknowledge one religion when it comes to public education or government decisions. Our country was not made to do so in the first place and public schools came into existence to move away from religious schools and their control.

In the end what all people must come to understand for peace in this regard is that religion is a -personal- belief. This means other people shouldn't have it tossed down their throats. If people want to explore religions, they should have the rights to do so and go to the places of worship, prayer or meditation and not be mistreated or judged for it poorly. If people don't want to believe in a religion, that too should be their choice. Things have gotten better but too many religious groups feel that because in the past religions were parts of governments that today they should still seek that power and be competitive. Many other people, whether religious or not, just want to have the rights to feel what they wish and most do not harm others with their decisions. If we can just get the fanatic groups to cut their crap, things would be better but we still have a long way to go.

 

its only being shoved down your throat if you tell them to go away and they continue to bug you....if you got on to the people who come to your door wanting to sell you a bible it no more wrong then a little girl coming to sell you cookies all you gotta do is say no and good day and also the whole Christians who kill people is nothing more then a pre existing condition they would have become role playing killers if they had played a violent video game more then likely as well crazy people look for excuses for their actions and so they jump to whatever it is in their mind at the time its not because they are christians that they killed someone no more then its because they are a gamer they just say thats why they did it as an excuse to the dismay of everyone else and i keep hearing about the flying spagetti monster come on people at least give credit to the guy that originally came up with that thing when you say it cause your just running yourselves in circles when you bring up the flying spagetti monster. the trump card of a atheist or agnostic backed up is always prove this god or gods arent real or whatever and the trump card of any religious person is going to be prove my god or gods arent real and you know thats the point where most disscussions dissolve into arguement hence i think any topic about religion should be considered trolling if it involves attacking another religion specificly or trying to put down followers of that religion as being like unaware children because thats what trolling is plus no one will leave it beleiving any diffrent then they went into it