Atheism

I can't believe no one's mentioned how brackets don't hide the message in the first post lol.

 

Hey, Chev, did you know the brackets don't hide the message in the first post?

 

Really!? /despair

 

Yeah, I remember learning this in RE (just not in as much detail xD)- just the basis that the interpretation of "day", that creationists take literally, and some other Christians may take as meaning more time than just 24 hours. The order is fundamentally the same : )

It's similar with the big band theory (not the show xD), some of my Christian friends simply believe that God created the big bang in order to start the creation of hte universe.

 

Well, the thing is, what exactly are the good things that religion provides that couldn' t be achieved by entirely secular means ? For instance Ienzo said that to her religion explains the why. Last time I checked philosophy could ponder on the why, without adding any divine extra ingredient. Besides, from what little I read of it, the Bible seems to assume the why rather than ponder on it. One could argue that most christians just use the Bible as a starting place, a tool to ponder on the why themselves, but then the Lord Of The Ring could be used the same way, amongst many books, and I don' t see how actually believing in hobbits would help me to better decipher the hidden wisdom of TLOTR, nor what makes the Bible so much better as a support.

I could go on and on about the list of bad things that religion could bring (and does bring, here and now), but when I try to think of the good things it can give then all I can come up with is "a lie can have positive results". Personally the less I' m lied to the better, but on the other hand I can picture myself in many positions where I' d chose to tell a lie rather than the truth in order to reach a more positive outcome. However lies are a double edged sword because our beliefs impact the decisions we make : if you start going around spending money like crazy, believing that you won the lottery when in fact you really didn' t ... yeah. Ironically, the road to hell is supposedly paved with lies.

As for atheists systematically putting down believers, well, if I do it means you royally pissed me off. Otherwise I could get a little ironic, sure, but it would all be in good fun. Why wouldn' t I ridicule a belief that cannot be backed up with reason and evidence, isn' t it exactly what ridicule is for ? I' m pretty sure I say ridiculous things myself regularly, as does anyone really. As long as I don' t sense hostility from the one who underlines my stupidity I' m quite happy he did underline it, otherwise I might do it again, and in public. It' s basically the equivalent of a "dude, your fly' s open", delivered with a little smile you couldn' t quite suppress. But hey, if walking around with your fly open is your thing I' ll shut up about it eventually. Unless of course it has bad consequences for me.

Atheism is the lack of belief, it' s the rejection of the claim "at least one god exists". Some atheists go a step further (they deny that claim instead of just rejecting it), but this is a position about what they think is knowable whereas atheism is merely a belief position. Basically all it takes to be an atheist is to not believe in any god, which isn' t incompatible with admitting that the claim that a god exists could be valid.

Let me illustrate : for all I know there could be invisible people walking around. I don' t deny that it is possible. However I never had any evidence that could support that claim so I reject it, meaning I don' t let that possibility color my actions. I don' t fear bumping into invisible stuff whenever I take a walk, I don' t talk to them just in case they' re real, etc ...

The more extravagant the claim is, the more elaborate the evidence backing it up needs to be. If you neighbor told you he bought a dog you' d probably believe him, even without seeing the dog, but if he was to tell you that he bought a dragon you' d probably ask for a lot more than his word to believe him. It' s a practical approach, most people act that way towards any claim, but for some reason a lot of them give religious claims a free pass (well, the religious claims they happen to like), which puzzles me.

 

did you guys here the one about religion? rofl

edit: this might be one of the first times i've seen a spamzone thread produce posts longer than four sentences.

 

what.is.this.i.don't.even

It's true!

 

I am an atheist who loves religions and finds all of them extremely interesting.

Well then, time to go to both atheist and religious hell.

 

this is a sentence. this is a post. this post has sentences. pie is good. bacon is good

Spoiler

 

I too wish. It's something I've come to understand a lot more clearly since I was a devout Christian, however. Religion is a great escape, but it is also a great tragedy. While it is good for people, it goes to ridiculous lengths at times.

For example, one of my friends attempted to kill himself about a week ago while he was vacationing in Hawaii. He posted his suicide note on Facebook and then no one could reach him for the next 5 hours. Once he was found, his mother posted on his status "Luke is safe! THANK GOD!"

This bothers me tremendously. The misunderstanding of who is really behind things like paramedics, doctors, police and other social servants. Those individuals went through tons of training to be good at what they do, not to be shoved off to the side of gratitude on account of a deity.

Stereotyping aside, sometimes it's totally justified to feel like religion is a big cesspool of ignorance. Also, location in the world factors into this; America is so over-the-top with the fundamentalism that it's borderline intolerable. Even more devout nations are guilty of this as well, especially those that put religion first in their government.

Religion can be good for sentiments, but either people have free will or it's God's plan. It can't be both.

 

Because it's respectful not to mock someone who believes in something else?
Do you like it when people might ridicule you for being faithless or Godless and try to convince you over to their way of thinking based on that idea?

I could pull the main bad point atheism seems to attach with itself. Intolerance. It always seems to end that the atheist has no patience or care for discussion with the religious person and starts to insult the opposing side in various ways, such as comparing their Holy text to a work of fantasy fiction, or believe them to be lying to themselves and others. Which was the point I was trying to bring up about atheist and agnostics.

I believe in my religious teachings, but not the gods that are worshipped within it. Does that make me a religious person or not?

 

Depends on the delivery. As I said I usually don' t mean to be mean about it, and that person is perfectly free to explain to me how and why what he said wasn' t ridicule. If he succeeds I' ll never ridicule his point again (unless I find a new good reason to). Better yet, I may agree with him.

If anything by speaking my mind I' m being honest, which is my own way to respect others. If I see that I offended him/her I' ll certainly explain that it wasn' t my goal (admittedly those things gets blurrier to perceive on a text-based forum). And in case I wasn' t clear before I wouldn' t use their religious beliefs to label them as a whole as stupid, that' d be stupid.

I might enjoy it actually. If they' re just bullying me now that' s an entirely different matter.
Here' s a quote that I love (which may or may not be from Voltaire) :
Je ne suis pas d’accord avec ce que vous dites, mais je me battrai pour que vous ayez le droit de le dire.
(I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.)

And btw here' s another from Jules Renard :
Cherchez le ridicule en tout, vous le trouverez.
(Search for ridiculousness in everything, you' ll find it).

Actually you' re the one who insulted me by insinuating TLOTR isn' t holy, how dare you ! :p
Sorry but I' ll never let anyone use the "hey, it' s what I believe" card to stamp my statements as offensive. They took it as an offense, or acted as if, that' s not quite the same. If they can back up their point with reason and evidence I' ll throw around too many awkward apologies to count. If they can' t but seem genuinely offended I' ll drop it.
BTW, did I offend you ? If I had to bet I' d say you were just playing devil' s advocate, but maybe I' d better ask.

Hmm ... I suppose ? I know you don' t have to believe in a god to be religious but ... it' s hard to say if you don' t specify your beliefs (I' m no expert anyway).

 

I just found it incredibly surprising that I say:
I wish more atheists and agnostics were more understanding and open about the idea that religion can be good for people
And you go on to prove my point! >.<
I'm rarely offended, we're only talking about stuff, keeping it mature and calm, nothing to get offended about really.

Religions are too easily reduced to simple stereotypical views by those who do not understand it.

A religion doesn't have to have a god in it to be a faith, or a truth form where it came from so as to prove its worth, it simply needs good principles, teachings and good ideas to make you think.
I'd rather not explain my beliefs at this time, i'm too tired to explain Daoism properly. Maybe another time.

 

this is complete bullshit. the fact that you put insulting people before not insulting them as a sign of respect is complete insanity. and i find it hard to believe that you would admit you were wrong. atheists pride themselves as respectful people who are open to rational thinking, however i have yet to meet an atheist that is willing to admit when they are wrong, especially when they are admitting this to a religious person.

 

Ah ok, lol.
How about proving me wrong instead of wishing ? It works better with atheists.
I think I am open, at least I hope, you just didn' t ... err ... insert ?

If it makes you feel better I agree that religious beliefs can be fairly innocuous, it all depends on how and how much they affect the believer' s decisions. Also, what I gathered with reason and evidence could be so far from the truth that I' m a walking joke myself. I don' t think it' s likely though (the part about reason and evidence being as misleading as beliefs or more, not the part about me being a walking joke), but the catch is that I' d still ask you to prove it with reason and evidence. ^^

Says the one who doesn' t appreciate seeing all religious people being put in the same bag ? Here' s an idea : I' ll try my best not to assume things about you and you' ll do the same for me, deal ? As for the bullshit thing, well, you missed the part where I don' t see it as insulting. I don' t go around willingly insulting people unless they really asked for it (and even then I' m not sure I would).

 

I think that Atheism can be a belief. People believe so hard in the fact that they don't believe in anything. I've seen how much effort some people put into looking up "facts" about other religions, just to find ways to disprove it. it ends up becoming a part of them, though in all the wrong ways.

Honestly, people I have met have taken it to such levels that they proudly flaunt their Atheism around, and are ready to jump on any Christian's ass over it, just to announce that they are.

God doesn't exist because science. There are stars. Stars=no god!

 

Well, strong atheism certainly qualifies as a belief.

=> Stars = light.
=> Where there is light there are people, they' d have turned it off otherwise.
=> Therefore extraterrestrials exist.

 

One day, a Christian, a Muslim, a Jew, a Hindu, a Buddhist, a pre-Christian Europe Polytheist/Neopagan, an Agnostic, and an Atheist walk into a bar.

Then they all share a big hug because they collectively realize humans are still humans regardless of their beliefs. And then attempt to help each other up and return to consciousness because they all just walked into a metal bar together moments ago.

 

AND ALIENS DISPROVES CHRISTIANITY!

I hope you know I was joking

In what universe?