http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-ne...t-anti-animemanga-piracy-operation-next-month So do you like watching/reading Anime and Manga on the internet? Well some of those sites are illegal and the Japanese government is starting this project which will end illegal streaming and manga sites. They plan to start this project next month, August. They even have a list... What are your opinions, thoughts and concerns?
My thoughts are that this is a little strange. I mean, I understand the concerns they have, and some people have lost sites, but there's quite a few different sites on there that are famous and used by millions of people *coughyoutubecough*. I really hope they don't take down the manga sites though, because that's something I look forward to every week. Then again, I'm sure soon enough people will make new sites if they all get taken out.
Eh, I'm not much of a manga reader these days so I'm a bit indifferent on that front. There will -always- be ways for people to get a hold of manga/anime on the net anyway. *edited because I'm blind*
The Japanese government can't take down any of these websites down. They'll contact the sites and request the content be taken down, perhaps threaten legal action but that's about it. Sites like MF and RS awready remove content on request (In particular to serialised content) so it's not something that's totally new, it's just on a much larger scale. Will it force sites to close? Probably, but new ones will take their place and there's still a good selection of decent sites out there. Even then, you could download from the scanlators site. Nyaa is number 5 under the Pirates Bay, though I can't see that going down.
I'm not saying piracy is right, but honestly, they should be glad so many people like their anime and manga.
I'm just amused that justdubs isn't on that list, unless I skipped over it. And there are some anime websites that do take things down, I guess they just don't notice. Even animeratio got rid of most of it's famous anime because they were asked to
This is kind of my mentality regarding this. Sorta. A little. Taking down Mangastream would make my Wednesday afternoons a little more complicated. for like two minutes. I think they're fighting a losing battle, or rather one that they don't fully understand the ramifications of. What they need to realize is that piracy will never truly go away, and that people will continue to pirate as long as they are willing and able. That doesn't mean that people won't buy stuff. I don't know about other people, but I like to buy things that I like. Regardless of whether I've seen, heard, read, or played it already, if I like it and can afford it, I'll buy it. People don't have an endless amount of money to buy everything they're interested in instead of pirating it, especially when things are so freaking expensive. Pirating lets people find stuff they like. Tari Tari comes out on Blu-ray this November and were it not for pirating I wouldn't be buying it because I wouldn't know that it's worth buying. I know there are people who don't buy things they pirate, but what makes them think that these people would buy something they know nothing about? The people who buy something they know nothing about are the same people who don't pirate.
I'm not sure they can even pass a bill like this effecting the whole world. And it's something that can't pass in my eyes because of the impact it will have. I understand that it was piracy that brought anime and such to the western world. Without it, things wouldn't have evolved into what they are today. And while I make conscious decisions to avoid piracy and look for legal means of watching anime, I don't wholly condemn the practice. I like to believe that most people who pirate do it because there is no other legal means for them to obtain it that's easier. I'm sure that there are people who pirate simply because they believe they can, but those are few and far between. I mean, Game of Thrones is known for being one of the most pirated shows in recent history, but it still makes enough money to continue telling the story.
WHELP, TIME TO START TORRENTING GUYS. Naw, but, I think it's kinda silly and severely disadvantageous on their part. Free streaming and free manga scans are basically just free promotion to overseas audiences (US in particular) of anime and manga that they wouldn't have seen otherwise. And due to this pirating, there's more popularity and demand for them to bring their anime/manga overseas officially and fully translated, which results in more money for them. Companies, especially Japanese companies, need to understand that piracy doesn't necessarily mean less money/lost sales.
The problem is that the vast majority of those free sites do nothing for the industry. For every Crunchyroll, there's twenty Justdubs. Furthermore, while the growth of Crunchyroll and Hulu based streams have helped slow down piracy considerably, when piracy was left unchecked, it didn't automatically translate to free publicity. To some extent, the free publicity argument is true. There are multiple cases where piracy has shown western distributors that there is an audience for something they wouldn't have otherwise even considered bringing over. However, because of how rampant piracy is with the anime fandom, the vast majority of people are just going to download or use an illegal streaming site, even when there is a legal alternative, even when that alternative is just as free. I find the kind of mental gymnastics unabashed pirates use to justify themselves fascinating. First it was "DVDs are too expensive." Sure, except prices have (mostly) gone down and legal streaming has taken over. Then it was "I have to pay several subscription fees if I want everything." Sure, except that there are only two major services, Crunchyroll and Hulu, the vast majority of content is free with ads. Usually nowadays I hear "but I have to wait a week on Crunchyroll" or "Japanese fans get to watch it for free." For waiting, people are impatient as hell and refuse to accept that a week delay really isn't a big deal. For Japanese fans getting to watch for free, apparently they don't realize that ads exist in Japan, too. Hell, I've seen a fansubber admit to stealing scripts from Crunchyroll because he claimed that he could do everything else better. However, publishers, distributors and the Japanese government can't seem to get their heads out of their asses in regards to how to actually deal with pirates. First step is to stop trying to count the people who are going to pirate regardless of what you do as lost sales/views. They could offer free downloads of lossless 1080p, ad-free, dual-audio episodes with subs in any style you want (because for some reason, some pirates INSIST that the subs should be a random color and that there should be obnoxious karaoke subs in the openers and closers on everything), translated in any way you want (I'll save the difference between translation styles for later) and they'll still find an excuse to download unauthorized fansubs. Second is that they need to start treating the pirate sites as competition. I know, I know, free is pretty hard to beat, but then you realize that the defining difference between Crunchyroll and your average pirate site is that Crunchyroll is restricted by the terms of their licenses. Free streaming is something more distributors and publishers need to get on board with. Why? Because, again, you can't beat free. Third, stop punishing legal customers. Occasionally, we'll see a DVD release that, for some bizarre reason, has no Japanese audio. The reason for this is unsurprisingly extremely stupid: They don't want Japanese fans to import the western DVDs because the Japanese DVDs are far more expensive. This issue isn't as prevalent as it used to be and I don't remember the last time I heard a case like this, but this is an example of legal customers being punished to prevent people from doing something the publishers don't want them to do. Fourth, related the last point, they need to greatly increase the value of being a legal customer. While not as bad as it used to be, anime is still expensive to buy on DVD. We've finally stopped seeing 3 or 4 episode discs being released at $40 on a regular basis, but it still happens from time to time. DVD extras are an incentive and even full series box sets are often devoid of any extras outside of the Japanese audio track, which should be an expected feature, not an extra. Some people don't care about DVD extras, but that's just an example. DVDs/Blu-ray releases should find ways to give incentive to buying those instead of going straight for the Pirate Bay. Fifth, they need to find a way to increase the visibility of their legal options. I've run into several fans in real life who weren't even aware of the existence of Crunchyroll. While I can't say that they started using it after I made them aware of it (again, some people will never use a legal option, regardless of what it is), it's safe to say that Crunchyroll, while popular and growing, isn't big enough to stop piracy at large. For most shows, it's a shot in the dark if there is a legal streaming option or not. On a few occasions, I've downloaded something I thought was unlicensed, only to find that it's on Hulu for free. Nowadays, I generally have a policy of checking the legal options I know and have access to before going to Pirate Bay, but I have more patience than a lot of fans, especially the aforementioned guaranteed pirates who are, but shouldn't be counted as lost sales. Sixth, if they want us to pay for something, give us the option. It baffles me whenever I see region locked content. This goes back to licensing restrictions. It makes no sense whatsoever to block something in one region, only to allow it in another. There are quite a number of shows on Crunchyroll that are region blocked outside of the United States. Considering that the cost of opening access to other regions should be nothing or next to nothing, this makes no sense. What do publisher and distributors gain by not allowing audiences outside of certain regions? As far as I can tell, nothing. If it's an advertising issue, then they shouldn't be punishing the customers for not living in regions that they already had advertisers in. Instead, they need to do more to give more value to the customers instead of saying "you can't play with my toys because those kids that you have no control over said so." Related, publishers getting upset because people in a region their content isn't available in are pirating have no one but themselves to blame. I can't give my money for your product if you refuse to sell me your product in the first place. Seventh, stop trying to treat torrenting as if it only exists for piracy and stop trying treat "pirates" who still support legal options as criminals. I don't think I need to explain this one. For some reason, media publishers are resistant to change. Newspapers are dying a slow death, but they can't figure out what to do about it, game publishers are trying to lock legal customers out of their games in a futile attempt to drive a few extra sales that weren't going to be sales in the first place and anime publishers try to use a legal hammer to smash torrent sites and pirate sites to try to drive a few extra sales that many potential customers can't afford in the first place. EDIT: Also, I'm reminded of when OneManga called it quits and switched gears to being a community site. They lost most of their users. Now there are three sites that use the name and the original, as far as I can tell, is just their forum and the other two are pirate sites that stole the name (illegal, I might add as the name is copyrighted, but then, they are pirate sites) because the original was once THE scanlation site.
I feel like this will be a task equal to trying to remove all porn from the internet- you can try to take down a lot of the major sites and even the minor ones but you will never get rid of them all, new ones will pop up and replace the old ones- they won't go away. I wouldn't have gotten into animes if it weren't for free online streaming, it has allowed me to go and spend money on some on the things that I like, Conventions for example: you go to them and see all these fans of shows dressing up and spending money on stuff they like which they probably got introduced to online. Besides Pokemon, Digimon, Yu-gi-Oh (and Bayblades?) and Naruto I can't remember many animes that are on British TV (can't speak for American TV), I know there will be channels out there but I don't have them and if I did then I would watch the anime there. I don't pirate for pirate sake, I pirate because I enjoy the show and want to carry on watching it and it's the only way for me to do so. My main hope is for them to find legal ways of reaching out and giving the Western world their shows as currently it's just them taking the shows and manga away from us.
My issue with this is that manga and anime aren't exactly cheap. Even when things are localized, I've seen a single volume of the Attack on Titan manga go for $11 a pop everywhere. I'd pay that much for one of those 3-in-1 volumes that Shonen Jump is releasing for their big franchises like Bleach and Naruto, but not for a single volume. If they take down these sites, there's no real way to get the shows out to the public. American tv really only shows reruns, and even then the only shows that get any kind of decent slot are already well-established (Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh!, Beyblade, DragonBall Z, etc.). I know Adult Swim shows some newer anime, but most people like to try out a show on their own time without having to pay. Taking down these websites only hurts Japan in the long run. If it weren't for sites like this, stuff like AoT wouldn't really have a chance to get big in the West. If people can't watch, they can't rave and show the creators that localizing a series would be profitable. It's a vicious cycle, but in the end it's a "necessary evil" of sorts.
Ehhhhh, not necessarily. For a Japanese Blu-ray for an anime that just got released or is currently being aired, it's about $60-$80 USD for about 3 episodes. I **** you not. Not to mention that it probably doesn't even come with subs. And the Nipponese do make extra content in the blu-rays/DVDs that the TV series might not have had to add incentive to buy them. Like, more detailed scenes (Madoka), director's cut versions of episodes (NGE), or uncensored versions for the more ecchi anime out there. But anyway, you do make a lot of good points. However, my main problem with those legal streaming sites (Crunchyroll especially) is that it benefits the WEBSITE or service more than the studio that produced the anime you're watching. Crunchyroll is making a fortune off of other companies' IPs (CR is worth $27.6 Million right now) and that's not something I really want to support. CR binds these studios into really unfair contracts, and the studios have to agree to it because they don't have any other choice really. It's either sign with CR or nothing. It's a low-cost, low-benefit situation for the studio. One might argue that CR needs that revenue to pay its translators, but there are countless fansubbers on the internet who do this stuff for free. There has always been people who would translate their favorite anime for free and put it out on the internet, and there always will be, which implies that it isn't a hard enough job that would validate being paid for it. But that's just my two cents.
Most of the time, at least in western regions, we'll see complete series nowadays for $40-$80. Yes, there are still issues with pricing as we do still see 4 episode releases for $40 or more, but DVD prices have dropped since the early 2000s when 4 episodes for $40 was standard practice. And no **** the Japanese release doesn't have English subtitles. They're not for the western market! Also, those prices are the reason why we get the occasional dub-only release because it's sometimes cheaper to import western releases than buy Japanese releases. As I said, instead of punishing legal customers to get people to not do something they don't want, they need to offer better value. That's basic business. Did you seriously just say "Nipponese" without a hint of irony? Also, while updated content is great, actual bonus features (IE, behind the scenes, writer/director/cast interviews and so on and so forth) are rare. Imagine that, a business is out to make a profit! Last I checked, Crunchyroll doesn't show where their profit goes. They don't have to show that to anyone but their shareholders (they have none as they're not publicly traded). We don't know how much of that money goes to the studios for distribution rights. Regardless, while I don't know the numbers and I'd love to be able to access that information, it's still more than the amount of money that goes to the studios from fansubbers, which is, always has been and always will be zero. Got a citation for that? If not, I have to assume you're just feeding me the same bullshit fansubbers feed the pirates. The studios do have other options, actually. They could sign with FUNimation or Viz, who use Hulu to stream, they could sign with another distributor or they could just leave it unlicensed. It's absurd to claim that they have no other option besides Crunchyroll. Also, "low-cost, low-benefit solution?" Yeah, imagine that, you put no cost into something and you get what you pay for! So, the writers, animators, directors, translators, subtitle writers and anyone else involved in the creation of the work don't deserve to get paid for their work because some fans will give it away for free? Regardless of how easy it is to translate something (and it's not as easy as fan translators would have you think. Have you seen how most of them write?), fansubs give absolutely NOTHING back to the creators. And that's the problem. Like I said, I'd like to see a citation on the claim that Crunchyroll is screwing over the studios and even if there is truth to that claim, they're still contributing more to the studios than fansubbers ever have or ever will. Not to mention that Crunchyroll is, in fact, free. You don't need a premium membership to access almost every single one of their titles and the ones that you do need premium membership to view, if I remember correctly, is more due to the terms of their license than anything. Just because you have to wait a week and sit through ads doesn't mean it isn't free. Hell, pirate streaming sites make you sit through just as many ads and they don't guarantee that the quality will be any good. Why hello claim that manga is more expensive than it really is. The reality is that manga is meant to compete in the same circles as comics and, when priced along side western titles, manga actually easily comes out on top in terms of value. A trade paperback of, say Green Lantern will generally be priced between $15 and $25, depending on how many issues it collects. A volume of manga will generally go for about $10-$15, depending on publisher. While the manga publishers are generally going to use inferior paper and it will be printed in black and white, you still get far more content out of a single volume of manga than you do out of a single trade paperback of a western title. Trying to compare manga prices to anime prices is like apples and oranges. While there is a strong relationship between the two mediums, they target two different audiences. Anime targets TV viewers, while manga targets comic readers. Not to mention that pretty much all of my above statements still hold true when it comes to manga piracy.
Yeah, no ****. I'm talking about anime releases that are recent and haven't had any western releases yet. Yeah. They are. I'd much rather support a fansub group who decided to translate an anime out of their love for the anime rather than a business like CR who gains a Japanese studio's IP and make a profit off of someone else's work. Plus, I get to actually download it for later viewing, and at the quality that I want. I'd usually find some other way to support my favorite anime, whether that's buying merch, buying the official release when it comes to the west, or buying the manga. You don't have to agree with me, it's just my personal preference. Yes, but these are all usually high-cost affairs. As far as getting your anime to another region, it can't get any cheaper than selling the license to a legal streaming website, considering that there is little to no effort on the studio's side. My point was that since CR is so welcoming to anime studios (low-cost, and they can branch out to western audiences), then most anime studios would rather choose CR, despite how low their turnout may be. Streaming anime on a legal website to support the people who work at the studio is the equivalent of buying an iPhone to support the Chinese workers. Fansubbers give quality releases to anyone willing to download, and they promote anime series in regions that people couldn't get otherwise (Crunchyroll is region blocked for certain places). It's for people who don't have access to the anime at all. Plus, at $8 a month for premium membership with hundreds of anime on their website, you kind of have to wonder how much of your dollars are actually going back to Japan. The fact that CR doesn't decide to talk about how much of those subscribers' money/money from ads is going to the studio makes me feel a bit suspicious of CR and I don't feel comfortable supporting a website that might be making more profit off of a studio than the actual studio. Alright, Crunchyroll marketing team. And I don't really condone pirate streaming sites. Perhaps a way they can beat the pirates is by doing what Space Dandy does, and have it air in the US first, fully translated, and then release it in Japan, just hours later. That way, the Japanese aren't losing "views", or money and the West gets to watch it legally, before it gets the chance to be pirated. Everyone wins!
Which is a related, but altogether different issue. Again, the creators don't deserve to be paid for their work because someone will do it for free illegally? Crunchyroll is a DISTRIBUTOR. Their job is to DISTRIBUTE. DISTRIBUTION costs money and studios would rather have someone to do it for them. They're not "making a profit off of someone else's work," they're doing their job. Ah, yes, the old "but I have to STREAM Crunchyroll" argument. Sorry if I have no sympathy when you would rather pirate something because you're too lazy to stream it. Again, why don't the creators deserve to be PAID for their work? I hate to break it to you, but Crunchyroll streams ARE official releases and when they're streamed, be it by Crunchyroll, FUNimation, Viz or someone else, it HAS come to the west. I fail to see how this is a problem. Care to actually explain how Crunchyroll is somehow exploiting the studios? I am at a loss on how to best respond to something this unbelievably stupid. This is a brilliant example of false equivalency. Sure... except that I've already addressed this point. This is a major issue. It makes no sense whatsoever to region lock online content. So how does this excuse just taking what you feel like and refusing to give anything in return? Crunchyroll is still giving more money to the studios than funsubbers are. You're assuming that they're exploiting the studios when you haven't even explained HOW they're exploiting the studios. Region locking is on the studios. Paywalls are on the studios. The negatives of using Crunchyroll are on the studios. Who do you think is getting a cut of the money when you buy the DVDs? A distributor's job is to put the content out there. They buy the licenses so they have the right to MAKE MONEY by selling a studio's content. That's what a distributor does. Again, Crunchyroll is a distributor. Their job is to distribute content. And based on the fact that they're making money, they're able to increase the amount of content they can distribute. Getting upset that Crunchyroll doesn't talk about the terms of their contracts and tell everyone how much money each license costs them is like getting upset that FUNimation doesn't tell everyone how much royalty money studios make through DVD sales. What do you gain by refusing to use legal streaming options? Fansubs of licensed and legally, readily available free content isn't much better. The problem with the US-first method is that Space Dandy is actually the first time that method has been largely successful and it leaves other regions SOL. Not to mention the low number of anime airing on TV. Not to mention that the only time this happens is when Toonami foots part of the publishing bill. That's what happened with IGPX and that's what happened with Space Dandy. A better option that all of the major streaming options have condoned to the point where even Toei has posted Sailor Moon Crystal with English subtitles to Nico Nico Douga is simulcast. This is also something that fansubbers can't compete with. If it's aired at the same time world-wide, then EVERYONE gets to watch it before it can be posted to Pirate Bay and you don't have the issue of region locking. You still have to sit through ads, but they have to make their money somehow.
I always found the whole "Pirating is bad" argument to be a tad bit silly, until there is actual punishment for taking something from the internet "free of charge" people WILL NOT stop. No matter how many bills try to get passed, no matter how many warnings, people will find a way around that. Proxies, VPN's, etc. It cannot be stopped unless the "authorities" actually have the balls to do something about it. That being said, if we all know the people who constantly do it are not going to stop, then this just turns into some moral debate about how "wrong it is". The grand thing about that is, most people don't actually care. Myself included.That probably sounds really selfish, but yet again oh well.
