Anime+ with English dubs you actually prefer?

i don't disagree but when discussions degenerate to throwing insults back and forth it's not a discussion worth having anymore. i would like to think people here are capable of having discussions without doing so and given that the spam zone is one section on an entire forum, this is clearly the case. if not posting a discussion-worthy thread in the spam zone means that topic can be explored and ideas can be exchanged without derailing into personal insults like "youre taste is ****", there's no reason it should be posted in the zone. and if a person has so much repressed aggression that they are unable to converse without insulting other people, that's an issue that should be dealt with outside of a place where people should be free to discuss things without feeling attacked.

and make no mistake, i like the spam zone for what it is. im just responding to your statement

 

I'm going to just specify here that she didn't insult me. That's just how Jiku and I used to talk in the mega. She knows I can handle it and I knew she didn't genuinely think everything I like is awful. There's a reason we bounced back so quickly.

 

I feel like you're really focused on character fit. It's important but it's more a actor based thing than overall presentation. And by that I mean the same thing I said about adaptation versus translation in that one thread last year. I think that dubs usually end up better when they try not to be like the original and when all meaning is lost but a new meaning is taken on. Okay, you didn't watch the same show and you didn't get the same message but it's something that fits your locale better, that's why it's called localization. And this is more dependent on your translation team and where they decide certain things.

 

im sure. anyone who converses with jiku must adopt such a rapport or get butthurt
hayabusa was the one who said "posts like these" or something to that effect, everything i've said has been in response.

 

I actually talk to most people this way, but in general it's a sign that I think you can take it.

 

Yeah, at no point did I feel insulted. I just wanted to make sure you weren't being accused of throwing insults at me when I wasn't insulted. I took them as just simple jests.

I am focused on character fit, but not so much fitting to who they were in Nippon, but what they do in general and, more importantly, what they look like. That said, I see what you mean and you nailed the point home so well I'm conforming a bit. That IS why Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, FLCL, and Baccano! are superior dubs. I've seen a couple anime movies with specific roles I really liked where I felt the character came to life because the voice actor did his own thing. So I get what you're saying, and I agree. Regardless, no matter what, people will say YOU CAN'T THROW AWAY THE SOURCE MATERIAL. I don't know how much I agree or disagree with that line of thinking, but I can't opinionate on that due to always lacking exposure to the source material. I do find dubs to be good productions and I'm more comfortable watching them. That said, Baccano saw the setting and made the voices fit around that which ended up making the presentation feel very authentic and genuine. Meanwhile, Bebop's characters all felt like they could be in a quirky noire. So yes, you're right, when your sound direction is above simply "who fits who," it leaves a large footprint in the world of dubs.

 

Example of my point, it's like with Kill la Kill. This show is about society forcing its own image onto you and being comfortable with who you are on one level and on another its a parody of the anime industry as a whole and the conventions used. The final line of the climactic scene really sends it home. And in both these ways it's unrelatable to most Americans. We live in a very open society where people are constantly told to follow their own dreams and be whoever they want and do what they want already so it's hard to get the full impact of something that was targeted at a highly repressive society. Next is most Americans can't follow a critique of something they don't watch so the ribs there get lost. So when you're looking at Kill la Kill's dub you want to refit the first thing to be a little more relatable and somehow avoid the second in a lot of the dialogue. So this is where I say you can't try to be true to the source material because it not only won't please it won't sell. If you want anime to be big and well liked you want something that can be appreciated by more people preferably and that's how you do it. So you have to drop the message in favor of an easier one. In this case it'll become a TTGL clone and be about fighting authority and raising your voice rather than the slightly more subtle initial meaning.

The series you mentioned, barring Champloo because that works just as well in either language and FLCL because that's pretty Japanese, are defined by their western-ness. All of the series may have prettyJapanese writing and scenarios but the characters and setting are very decidedly western so it's actually more natural not to just dub them but to have them speaking English in general. So that's why certain people work better one way or another, it's just the character. So FLCL pretty much ditched the source material. All of the jokes were changed to accommodate localization. But where they could they kept it the same as it was, an absurdist coming of age story. But they made that choice right, they changed what didn't fit and adapted what did. So it's more an example of my point than yours.

There are also some shows that cannot be dubbed. Simple as that. Nichijou, Joshiraku(aka You Must Be This Japanese to Watch) and SZS come to mind immediately. These are all comedy series and you lose all context in a dub and would be forced to rewrite literally every line and ruin anything they could try to leave the same.

End of the day, it's about degrees of separation from Raws>Subs>Dubs and each time you expect something to be lost but if you do it a certain way you can also gain something in translation.

 

Is it really that crazy to just not want to have to read text or learn Japanese to watch a cartoon?

 

OK MAYBE THIS WOULD HAVE FIT BETTER SOMEWHERE ELSE BUT I DON'T CARE WE CAN STILL DISCUSS and wow I'm using caps way too much my bad.

Some things I wanted to comment on:

As you stated, a personal hang-up, but I dislike the idea that characters in fictional universes have to sound real. Like, fuck that, I don't know anyone who sounds like Reuben Langdon's version of Dante from Devil May Cry 3 & 4, but I love it: he sounds like he's just having fun yet respecting the character when it comes to lines pertaining to personal drama. On the other side, it's one thing I hate about the new Dante: his voice actor sounds realistic, sure, but he also sounds BORING. I can't get behind a half-demon/half-angel dude (yeah they changed it) when he sounds just like some shmuck from down the street. The games are silly, and the characters shouldn't be sounding so realistic.

Yeah I was a little discouraged that she went in another direction, but it's a direction that still pertains to the subject. Thus, my like.

...not sure if referencing good ol' Bosch.

MY B I DUN PAY ATTENTION TO RELATIONSHITS :P

I agree with what you and Jiku are basically saying. I constantly get fed up with people either defending or bashing an adaptation or localization because it is or isn't like the original. Don't get me wrong, when the meaning and themes are thrown out the window or misconveyed, I get annoyed, but I do like when a different but equally well-conveyed meaning takes the original's place. Like apparently the Kick-Ass films (specifically I hear the second one) has a much more pro-masked hero tone to it than the original comics. It's a message I far prefer, and it shows that sometimes it's perfectly fine to not follow the originals.

 

I don't necessarily think she's insulting people who like English dubs, she just doesn't like the product. Which is fair. Everyone has a preference.

 

It's not crazy, but I still find it lazy and I like to recommend against it. I've found enjoyment in seeking out foreign language originals, like how I felt [REC] was better (by not a huge margin) than it's American remake, Quarantine.

But hey, I'm not yer mum so who cares.

 

I uh
wasn't referring to anybody in particular
I'm actually not even sure who you're talking about because I can never get KHv genders straight

But I mean, why would I not want to be lazy while watching a show? When I watch something with subs I'm always pausing constantly because I'm worried it won't be on long enough for me to read (this is pretty common too, because a lot of the time a few quickly spoken words in Japanese can become a huge sentence)
I just want to experience the show, and ideally I don't want to have to pay attention to it constantly, too

 

You read slow.

 

I find that kind of an issue. If you want to experience a show, you pretty much have to pay attention constantly, or else you'll miss clever dialogue or subtle imagery that could enhance your over all experience. Also, as Jiku plainly put it, you might be a bit of a slow reader, as I almost never have to pause to read something while watching subbed anime (please don't take offense at that)

 

I mean, I can sort of get that. Usually, when I'm watching stuff, I'm multitasking. The only time I ever really focus on a screen, it's when I'm at the movie theater. So, yeah, when I'm watching subtitled, I have to focus purely on what's going on there. Luckily, the Playstation is hooked up to the big screen, so I can stream Crunchyroll and watch it there instead of a small screen.

 

It's not that I don't have time, it's that I'm worried I won't, so I pause constantly to make sure. I dunno where you guys get your subtitles from but I find that a lot of the time they have moments where a huge sentence flashes on screen for a half of a second before moving on to the next thing. Also, keeping my eye on the text constantly also means I can't focus as much on the actual moving pictures. It's just an overall less enjoyable experience for me

Partially because of this. A lot of the time when I watch a show I have it on while I do something and switch back and forth between the show and something else.

 

You are afraid that you read slow.

 

eh, maybe. I doubt it though

 

Also, I feel like watching a show is the same as watching a movie. I do it alone, in the dark, with the volume up high enough to drown out anyone trying to socialize with me. I don't multitask, I don't pause, I don't think about other things. It's motherfucking business time when I watch things which is why it's hard for me to block off time to watch things.

 

I think when it comes to reading subtitles, it comes with practice. When I began to watch subbed animes, I was the same way. I feel that once you're used to it and you watch subbed anime on a semi regular basis, it becomes second nature.

Yeah. I still have a bit of a rough time eating and watching subbed anime.