Kingdom Hearts An argument about Ansem

I found this argument on Kingdom Hearts wiki page. It's and argument weather or not Ansem the seeker of darkness is a pureblood or an emblem heartless. He is wearing a heartless symbol but this is on his clothing and so could just be a choice. Where as his shadow also has the heart shaped hole so commonly assosiated with pureblood heartless.
What do you guys think?

 

Well, we never actually saw him become a heartless. If he did it in a natural way (don't ask me the specifics, I have no clue), then he would technically be a pureblood. However, if he used some sort of machine and manufactured his power, then he would be considered a man-made, emblem heartless. As far as his guardian-shadow, it is merely a part of him, like an arm, or a leg. So even if he is an emblem heartless, that doesn't mean that the emblem would appear on his shadow.

 

but since no one saw him turn how do we know? He displays features of both types so which one is he?

 

Well I always assumed that he was emblem, though I have no proof and that is only speculation. It would help if we knew about the other founding members of the Organization and their heartless. I wonder if emblem heartless can even have nobodies? The only time we saw someone turn into a heartless and spawn a nobody

Spoiler

...Sora...

that was a pureblood heartless. So it's possible that emblems can't have nobodies. Making Ansem Seeker of Darkness a pureblood. (this is only a possibility, I could very well be wrong)

 

I would think your wrong... It's wrong to think that only purebloods had Nobodies, since both are about the heart....

 

Since it says that he turned into heartless because the darkness consumed him I think it's safe to say he's a pureblood but maybe teh darkness took him over when (if) the machine to make heartless exploded (we don't know if it did because we never do see it unless it's that thing in the last portal of the End of the World. In which case he's definitely pureblood). I still say he's a pureblood but you never know in KH unless they spell it out for you.

 

I'm not sure of a definitive difference between emblem and pureblood so I don't know if what I'm saying is correct or not.

Heartless are the darkness in peoples hearts taking form, the emblem heartless are created through a machine therefore I would say Ansem is a pureblood. We didn't see him turn into a heartless but my assumption is that his anger and jealousy of Ansem the Wise grew as he held him back from doing experiments (just taken from the scen in KH2) so the darkness inside him consumed him. No machine involved. The Heartless emblem is "xehanort's symbol" (according to Wiki) so I would have thought that he created all the emblem heartless so he could have an army of them so he could get kingdom hearts.

 

Thing is we never know WHEN he develops the obsession with KH. He never cared about it as Atw's apprentice (as far as we now up til now) although his jealousy and hatred are probably what allowed the darkness to consume him. He made the machine and when he was consumed Maleficent used it to make her army. We don't know for sure if Xehanort/Ansem made an army of if he just used it for research prior to his change. I think he used it purely for his research on the heart then when he was changed Maleficent used it for herself to make her 'invincible' heartless army.

 

The 'definitive difference' is that Purebloods occur when a heart is taken and absorbed by pure darkness, while the original Emblems were artificially formed around a heart, one they didn't absorb properly. Hence why Emblems drop hearts when defeated. Emblems also produce other Emblems when they take hearts from people.

As for 'when the obsession began developing', I'd say it was after Xehanort became a Heartless himself.

 

I'd say Emblem. The emblem overlaps his clothes and chest. Also, I imagine that retaining his consciousness was his overall goal he had in mind for creating the machine. For some reason, I can't see Xehanort as the sort of guy who creates Large Bodies or Bouncywilds for fun. He was probably test-driving the machine, so at some point he could finally create a heartless body suitable for himself. Just speculation though.

The Guardian can either be a part of him (in which case the criteria of "An emblem is somewhere on the body" is met), or it is not. Instead, it might be a pureblood under his control. Either way, it still makes sense.

 

This is the point they were trying to put across. That Ansem exsibits both the trates of heartless.

 

His guardian may just be whatr he uses for protection. We never see it in the final battle where he's part of the giant monster. It's not necessarily a part of him. It's just summoned by him. Also, this is kind of a lame theory but what if the emblem is just a part of his shirt. He doesn't have it in the final FINAL battle. Only when he's sleeping, controlling the monster. This leads me to believe that he truly is a pureblood.

 

Not every pureblood has that heart-shaped hole so it's not a symbol of Purebloods.
...Unless they do and I'm the worst KH fan ever for not noticing.

I always assumed he was a Pureblood and the symbol, as many others have said, is on his shirt. It's his emblem and he gave it to the emblem heartless. I mean, he named the Heartless himself after "discovering" them (or at least he thinks so) and made his own creation so he would use his symbol for it. Then after keeping his mentality (albeit a slightly new one, if you ask me), he gave himself the same symbol he marked his creations with because he became one of them.

I believe the Pureblood is an extension of him. Ansem SoD relies on instinct, like every other Heartless, but he's much more intelligent. Maybe there was another part of him, the basic instinct or unintelligent Heartless mindset, that he pushed back and it manifested as his Guardian. or it could be because of Xehanort's unique heart situation (Beat BBS and you'll see)

 

True, not all of them do but that wasn't what I was implying.

This is an intersting theory. I think you might be onto something.

 

I vote neither. His heart wasn't processed by his heartless machine as it was directly given to darkness. And when he came back he lacked most of the requirements to be considered a normal pure blood heartless. He lacked a body of darkness for instance.
Ansem the seeker of darkness, is a very special heartless. So much so, he might not even be considered a heartless to begin with.
He himself wasn't sure what he was.

Ansem the Seeker of darkness gave his heart to darkness willingly and this might have changed the normal heartless process in his case. He's what we call a floating/walking heart. Like Sora after he turned into a heartless in KH1. He was simply a heart. Heartless tend to forget their past memories and personalites. Ansem kept his. Something special happened in his case. Ansem the seeker of darkness didn't have a body of darkness like a shadow. He had a weak body of some sort under his cloak but as you can see in this picture it was smaller than Riku.

 

Ok William you win. That has to be the best exsplanation I have ever gotten! Here is a cookie lol. So I guess thats that, like William has proven Ansem SoD isn't a pureblood or an emblem... The next question is what to call this special breed of heartless that only Sora and Ansem SoD seem to be a part of?

 

lol Thanks

Well I haven't proven it, only speculated the possibility. This one of those open ended answers about KH. We'll likely never get an exact answer, so it's really however you look at it. I could argue he's either not a heartless but solely a heart, or that he's a special pureblood heartless like Sora was. In KH2 they referred to him as Xehanort's heartless. They also called Namine a nobody when she doesn't fit the requirements for it. Logically he should have comeback a pureblood heartless. A powerful one no doubt, but like a Darkside. He should have remained nameless, and unable to think rationally. But there is something very special about both Sora and Ansem's hearts. Like LilBueno said, the events of BBS could explain why the two of them are so unique.

 

If Seekernort (I WILL get this to catch on) is any kind of Heartless, he's definitely not an emblem. The emblem fastens his jacket; note the absence of it in his World of Darkness form, where he is shirtless.

Fair points all. But I feel the answer is a bit more complicated than Xehanort just having a special heart.

The original Xehanort drew strength from the darkness; he used and wielded it effectively. The closest parallel to this that we can observe is Maleficent; she partook of the darkness enough that anyone besides her would have been consumed by it. So what's the difference?

I believe that anyone who invests themselves fully in the darkness--not as a weapon, but as an ally--is treated differently by it. I think the same holds true for the light; those who accept it and let it work through them are empowered by it, while those who resist and shun it are obliterated. In the case of darkness, followers are empowered while resistance is corrupted and turned into raw materials.

The reason we see so few who experience the empowerment of the darkness is because it is viewed with much contempt, and it is a seductive force that makes one uneasy and distrusting of it. It may also be more difficult to wield. That would tie in to MX stating, I believe in the BbS reports, that there is an imbalance between light and darkness in their universe.

Now, what does all this mean for Seekernort? Simple. He is what Maleficent wants to be: the perfect darkness, able to bathe in its waters but never drown. He is beyond a pureblood Heartless; he is pureblood darkness. That's my inclination, anyway.

 

I see your point but if that were true then wouldn't Riku of been distroyed by the darkness in KHCoM because before the end he shunned it...

 

It was said by Noramura that Sora was a walking heart from the Kairi hug to the end of KH2. It's possible that Ansem SoD was also said walking heart.

The difference between Pure's and emblems is that Pure's are made by a machine or possibly when a Pure takes someones heart. Also Pure's do not release hearts when defeated while Emblem's do.