Abortion is Murder?

What definition of "life" are we using here? Like I already said, a fetus is alive at basically any time it's a fetus by the basic definition of the word, so really, I don't see why this is even a debate at all.

The thing is that the fetus being alive doesn't really mean much by itself. Cancer cells are alive but we kill them. I'm not necessarily equating a fetus with cancer, but I don't think it's as simple as "it's alive, we shouldn't kill it". The real question we should be asking is, like I said before, if a fetus is a person who has rights.

 

We can never truly say how a child will develop, no matter how much data you have, it is something completely unpredictable. But you can gauge the likelihood of a child developing positively. This decreases in situations, such as bad social background, low attentiveness from caregivers, negative emotional enviroment, etc. The more likely a child will develop negatively, the more logical it is not to let a child to develop in such a negative situation.

In your mothers case she was able to find assitant in the form of friends and family. However, I specifically meant mothers who had no assitance of any kind, such as the father running away, the parent's dishoning her and so on. When you are cornered into that situation and are told by others you have ot have the baby anyway, in the sense I was getting from Bushido, that's when I disagreed, not beliving a baby can develop in that situation.

Adoption can be the worse outcome for emotional and social development in later life. The later you get adopted in life the worse the development is, which can also affect intelligence and emotional stability, causing higher risk in mental disabilities. I've not found any evidence to say that being in an orphanage has any positive side effects in later life in its current state, and therefore I do not recommend it till the conditions are improved.

 

Just because they didn't know the difference doesn't mean there wouldn't be one. I know for a fact that I've saved lives. Would anyone have taken my place, were I not here?

 

When does the baby start? It's not magically created when a couple has sex. It starts in the egg and the sperm, yet we have no problems with not impregnating every egg. The argument is about where the line is drawn. Some people argue as soon as the sperm and egg meet, others argue for a certain level of development. We need to define life.

 

Abortion is sick-(But that is coming from me-I think all murder in any way,Shape or Form-It's just who I am) But how could someone live with themselves knowing that they stopped an innocent baby basically existing >=[

 

But it isn't a baby yet.

It's a fetus.

When can we say that the baby is a living human being?

Or one that has rights/citizenship?

What is the legal definition of murder and does it apply to the fetus?

What if the mother was raped and impregnated?

What if the baby has small chance of living or a good chance of killing the mother through childbirth?

What if the baby will be born with a disability?

What if the baby will be born into a terrible life?


All of these questions come into play when deciding whether or not abortion is right in each case.
(Save for the last one which I believe is no excuse because life can always improve)

I personally believe that each case needs to be thought about carefully when deciding whether or not it should be allowed.

 

It's a fetus-Like a chickens egg (Best example I could come up with) Its suppost to grow into a larger organism.

When can we say that the baby is a living human being?-Cant say really-If I was to guess id say when the brain heart or spine starts to develop.

What is the legal definition of murder and does it apply to the fetus?-When one willingly kills another-Yes-In my opinion-As I said-Its suppost to grow into a larger organism,and in this case-a human being.

What if the mother was raped and impregnated?-Becoming Pregnat agaist ones will doesnt stop a mother to love her child-Even if (Im very sorry to say) wasnt intended

What if the baby has small chance of living or a good chance of killing the mother through childbirth?-Than its difficult and I will admit-different.

What if the baby will be born with a disability?-So what! Even if the child has a disability who is to say it should die?!

What if the baby will be born into a terrible life?-Everyone has a change to change their life-Every single one of us.

 

And I suppose you've been raped andf impregnated and thus speak from experience? Otherwise, how would you know how they feel? I can imagine a woman who has gone through 9 months of her life bearing a reminder of what was done to her to be a tad less welcoming of her future offspring. I advise you not to speak for someone else, especially since you really don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about here.
Not like you can force her to love it either. I say she is very entitled to decide what's to happen to it. She had no say in its creation, the least she can get is a say in its destruction.

 

But a human being =/= chicken.
We eat eggs.
We each chicken.
Hell, I had some Chick-fil-a last night.
Trees are alive.
Acorns grow into trees.
Should we punish someone who steps on an acorn?
Or cuts down a tree?

A human being has its rights. A chicken does not.
And an egg isn't as valuable as a chicken.
Change egg for fetus and chicken with human, no difference.
Fetus=/=baby.

That's YOUR opinion, but that has been left up for speculation.
Once the sperm enters the egg, it doesn't stop developing.
That doesn't make it a 2 day old embryo a living human being.

Murder is The unlawful killing of another human being without justification or excuse.
So the question is...when does the fetus make its transition to a human being?

There has been cases when a rape victim kept her baby.
But does that mean the mother doesn't remember being raped?
Being raped is a traumatic experience to the point where some victims repress the memory or refuse to report it. Being pregnant for 9 months is a constant reminder of it. The emotional and physical stress of pregnancy is a bigger reminder.
Then there's labor.
Then there's looking at the child every day of your life and thinking of your rapist.
And then supporting the child of your rapist.
Do you have any idea whatsoever as to how that would make someone feel?

Which is one of my points. EVERY case is different. There are some cases where it's necessary to have an abortion.

Wasn't my point. Perhaps I should have said defect, instead of disability.
Would you condemn someone to live their life with a defect?
I admit, I do think it's still wrong, but depending on the defect, you don't know he/she'll live a life worth living.

Some do. Not everyone. My siblings and I could have lived a very terrible life, but we changed it.
Not everyone is going to have opportunities to do so. But I'm on your side on this specific matter.

But the point is, every case is different. You can't group all abortions together and label it murder.

 

My own mother was abused like that as a teenager-Im not suppost to know about it but my older sister doest share the same father as me-Do the math-My mum still loves her with all her heart....I think I know what im talking about.

Life is Life-We dont know how its going to turn out unless we give it a chance.

 

Abortion maybe murder to people but I have something to say. It's the Womans choice to do so. I'm catholic and I'm not ready to have a baby. And to do adoption is fine but you constantly think about it if the babys ok. And plus if you don't want it but the guy can take it and you'd have to pay child support. Also the dad can make you the mom seem bad and alot of times the dad is nearby like in your neighborhood. It's bad enough he gives you dirty looks but imagine the kid going along with his dumb idea and you never seeing a child? There are many alternatives but for people who got raped and can't take care? And don't want to do adoption because tge adoption parents will be snub towards you and so will the kid?

Although that's a bunch of sillyness and stuff it's real and it happens. That's why you should wait. And when you know you can't raise but you can't give it up for adoption because of drama? Then you do an abortion. Because sometimes the abortion will make you wonder but this is my opion so it's my future. And even tho this screws up my body? I don't want the child to suffer.

Because the child or the baby didn't get a choice to come into this world. That choice was made by your parents. That being said I think I've made my point. It's the person who knows what would be better and it's not fair to the parents would problaby can't afford the whole package and who can only afford indivual insurance etc. So don't judge. It's a choice. And yes it is murder in one way but in a other it saves so people can go and live their life. It's their life and they make choices. Just like you and everywhere else.

Get it?(it's my opion I don't Mean to offend anyone!)

 

Yeah, if having one baby is good, why not two? Three? Four? And it goes on until you use up every single egg. It's the donation argument, where someone says, if giving one hundred dollars to charity is good, why not two hundred...
I believe death is defined when a person loses brain function. So I believe life begins when brain function begins.

We're all preventing someone from existing, every single moment we're not having sex with the opposite gender.

 

Abortion is defined as two things:
1. Induced abortion, what we're talking about here.
2. Miscarriages, accidental abortions. I wouldn't call those mothers murderers.

It starts in the egg and sperm, but the egg and sperm aren't developing. Once they meet, development starts. As to whether life starts when the sperm and egg meet as well, I disagree with that. I say it's more of a...parasite. Not exactly that, nor with the negative connatation, but I can't think of a better word for it. I agree that we need to define life first. We have a legal definition of death, so I partially agree with Crisp.

You can't really speak for your mom. Whether or not she loves your sister, you can't say your mother always did. I can't talk for her either. There has been cases where rape victims keep their children and love them (I'm so talking about Law and Order SVU here), but that doesn't mean that they don't suffer negative emotions when they see the child. Remembering the rapist or the rape itself. It brings emotional stress and pain. Not everyone can love a child through that.

Constantly? Not sure about that. There's also the fact that you don't have to do a secret adoption. I don't think it's that hard to be checking up on your kid and possibly meet the parents who adopt it.

So if the guy wants to keep the baby, but the girl doesn't, he can't have it? I know it's the woman's body and all that ****, but I don't think it's right to completely ignore the father's opinion.

Girls do that, too. Not all men are jerks and not all women are saints.

You're acting like everyone but the rape victim are bad people. There have been plenty of kids who have been adopted by good people. And people who file for adoption have background checks and personal interviews and the such before being allowed to adopt. Of course, that doesn't always work, but not everyone is a "snub."

So take the easy way out? I personally think doing an abortion just to avoid drama is the shallowest reason to do so. What kind of drama is so bad that you'll have to abort the baby?

The child didn't have a choice to die either. (Then again, not many people do.) The choice was made to have sex, not to have a child, by the parents.

Yep. Their life. Their choices.
But the baby's life is not their life. The baby can't make his own choices, yet.

So for a person to be considered dead, they must lose either ALL brain function or have their heart and lungs naturally stop operating. So by your logic, the moment the baby starts to have any brain function, a beating heart, or working lungs, life begins. If I recall correctly, according to J.C. Wilkes, heartbeat starts at 18 days. Brainwaves develop at 11 weeks. Not entirely sure on these two stats, though.

But with an abortion, a life is developing and we not only stop it, we get rid of it.
While not having sex, no life's development is stopped and destroyed.

 

Why when the sperm fuses with the egg? Why not take the stance that the egg is precious in itself? After all, it's an undeveloped baby.

I think that if pro-abortionists can define a baby as being a human when it is born, and pro-life can define a baby as being a human when it's conceived, I should be allowed to define it as starting when the ovaries create an egg.

/Devil's Advocate

 

I don't believe someone can take the judgement on what is and isn't precious when it comes to the conception of a baby. An egg is vital in the process of a developing baby, true. But saying that the egg is an underdeveloped baby is incorrect. The egg is only half the information of a possible developing human and the sperm would, by association, also be called an underdeveloped baby as well, since it holds the other half of the information. Both would be called precious and necessary for the process, since you can't have one without another.
What your proposing is like someone saying something like, Wood is an early version of fire.

 

An egg has the potential to grow into a fully formed adult human. A fetus has the potential to grow into a fully formed adult human. A baby has the potential to grow into a fully formed adult human.

What I am proposing is that a seed is an early version of a tree, but it needs to have something (placed in earth) done before it can grow into the tree. If you choose to interpret that as meaning sperm are also human, that's fine by me. I'm playing Devil's Advocate, remember?

 

I've seen way to many "A life is a life so it's murder" arguments. Well. Given the number of microscopic organisms in the average environment every time we inhale we're murdering. Clearly, the ethical thing to do is nothing or else some indeterminately placed organism will be killed in cold blood.

Just labeling it as murder without any unsubstantiated reasoning isn't even an argument. Judging something on it's potential for life is also ill-directed; potentially, everyone in the world is a murderer, so they should all just be locked up or executed. What all this should amount to is drawing the line of where the definition of a human individual begins and a bundle of cells ends. And in all empirical honesty there is a line.

 

THIS IS MY OPINION PLEASE DONT BASH!

I am against it yes is is murder. Its against god. EVen though the baby isnt even born its still alive and growing. now if the person who is haveing the baby is sick and her being pregnast will kill her then its not wrong to get in abortion cause she is protecting herself that isnt against god. But IMO its just wrong to do that cause your killing a human.

 

What is your definition of a human? Because there's about a good 11 weeks before some might consider it a human. I'd also like to add that God has never had any issue killing children himself.

 

Aye, you did indeed say that.
Seems we have many roles to play.
The question being how long we can stay on the fence.