Who agrees with 1 Timothy 2:11-15

Before anyone says "Jesus threw that rule out", Timothy is in the New Testament.

Yeaaaahhh... Bible = sexist, much?

 

There are quite a few Christians that still believe women should be subservient to men etc. The monotheistic religions have a systematic order to their desired society and everyone had an assigned slot. However, I think many Christians that aren't zealot jerks do not buy into that and have at least mentally tossed it out. There are examples, after all, that Jesus was kind to women even in poor scenarios such as Mary Magdalene. Yes, it's still in the bible, and Mary was supportive, not a 'leader' truly aloud, though some believe she had a lot of influence on Jesus personally. Peter had serious issues with Mary often for speaking out, as did some of the other disciples because women had their places and so did men.

Jesus was teaching tolerance and sympathy, love and compassion, but he was not telling women to be equal to men. Rather, just as with slaves, he was saying everyone had a place and a part and could be better people where they were. He did not wish violence, so slaves should be as they were and do the best they could and not rebel, and they would go to Heaven. Women would be women, child bearing and doing their duties of family and servitude rather than upsetting the balance. That was the way life was back then. Since times changed and views on slaves and women changed in dominant society, if Jesus were here today I think he would declare women are not needing to be submissive and they can do their own thing. Why? Because it would not cause violence for him to say so.

 

Well, of course it's unfair.

However, despite being a part of the Bible, a vast majority of the believers tend to "pick and choose" what to take literally and such. Apparently they can also "adapt" certain parts of the Bible to match the times, but never on any of most seemingly foolish lines. (see Creationism vs Evolution and other such arguments) :\

 

I agree here. Though we see it most often with Leviticus it does occur in the New Testament with this verse. But yes it was the times back when the bible was written that influenced it. Back then, women were considered property and any woman that spoke out could be accused of all manner of things before being stoned to death in the streets.

This way of thinking continued through time. Notably in the Dark Ages where any woman with power was considered a witch. Such ways of thinking was seen again in the Puritan colonies of the New World.

Needless to say I don't agree with 1 Timothy 2:11-15. The Bible as a whole is rather unreliable when trying to say anything. There are so many loopholes and inconsistencies it might as well be printed on Swiss Cheese.

Amazed so many people can take it so literally.

 

DO note that men wrote the bible. It's from their POV and what they want.

It was done by men who at that time could be the only ones who could read and write. So put that into perspective.

 

Darn, beat me to it.

But seriously though, even to the people who believe God, would you seriously think he would write something like that and mean it by heart? Sounds wrong. And to say with no take backs, i'm pretty sure only a human write that, and meant it.

 

Interesting points to consider of course.

But what of the Gospel of Mary Magdelene? And no this isn't just a The Da Vinci Code creation. Granted what was found is not a lot and horribly ragged. It does exist.

Also, another point I'd like to bring up. Some women did learn to read and write. Granted not Jewish women of course. But Roman, Grecian, Persian, etc. often educated their women. Mainly women of high standing in society.

 

Mary Magdalene's writings were of course not accepted which was part of the way men thought back then. The disciples did not have the respect for her that Jesus did and she was wholeheartedly a part of things but was underrated as women were.

Some women did learn to read and write and as you point out, most were obviously not Jewish. Women had no reason to write to them. However, Greek and Roman people viewed women differently and higher society women not only wrote but also would be speakers occasionally even in philosophical debates. They had gods that were women and though women had a 'place' it was more observed and valued than to Jews that considered that a woman was only blessed should she have a child through marriage.

I do think Jesus personally valued women more but he was in a time with people where class meant a lot and assigned duties were critical to maintaining the way of life the Jewish people had. Orthodox Jews still practice old rules very closely and some Christian groups observe these classes of people too, while many other Jews and Christians do not, because it is a different time and things have changed.

Of course, there are still groups of Christians that attempt to hold the bias still whether Jesus would or not, to go so far as to still give clearance and comprehension to men that rape women (or even female children) because they dress 'provocatively'. Even though many rapes do not transpire because of how a woman 'looks', this is still cleared in quite a few southern states and I find it holds up progression of men and women to be seen as equals, amongst other things I have voiced elsewhere.