Westboro Baptist Church

A quick search didn't bring up anything specifically on this topic so here goes.

Why is it that this group is tolerated? There have been countless court cases both against them and made by them and yet they still exist.

Why does the American government condone an organisation whose sole purpose is the spreading of hate? I also feel pity for the younger member of the family who have been completely brain washed and indoctrinated (like many children in theistic families) so that they have no choice but to follow.

One of the women was in her early 20's (I think) and was very nice, normal and seemed perfectly intelligent until she opened her mouth. And then there are the young children they force to attend their pickets. Surely this is child abuse?

I ask, why has this not been clamped down on. Lack of political will? Or is it secretly supported by senators with more than the well-being of their constituents on their minds?

 

Yes, those people are horrible. But they exist and are tolerated for the same reason the K.K.K. is tolerated: the First Amendment. It only guarantees free speech; it does not guarantee intelligent or good speech. As terrible as what they're saying is, it is political speech, and you have to be very careful about that.

But I have to disagree with you on the theistic and brainwashing bit. I know some families who are separated by religion and they are perfectly happy. There is one family I am very close to whose child wants to take a different path than her parents religion-wise. They are completely supportive of her doing this. I know of plenty of cases in which children are not told, "You'd better believe in this or else!"

 

Again I did not say all theistic families. Perhaps using the word many implied more than half. I'm sorry if that was misinterpreted. But when children are indoctrinated it can have terrible consequences for the rest of their lives. These girls never want to get married and are hated by everyone they meet because of what their parents have told them to believe.

Also, there is a difference between free speech and hate. I personally think that most human rights legislation goes too far in assuming that everyone is "equal" when really we aren't in any sense of the word, especially not socially. I would consider myself and most people I know to be "worth" more than the members of say the Westboro Baptist Church, the KKK or the BNP (British Nationalist Party, effectively modern day Nazis) and yet we are all treated the same by the law. It is a travesty.

Also, I thought the KKK were illegal?

 

Hate groups such as Westboro Church, the KKK, etc can 'exist' and say things but it's their actions that they can be legally held responsible for, though this group does not nearly get the pain back that it causes others. I really am not sure why the Westboro Church citizens who protest at funerals for soldiers and gays, and even Obama's grandmother, are not civilly fined at least. They are horrible people with one-track minds and just as people who announce they are in the KKK receive some animosity, so should these people. There's a reason why the KKK members wear white hoods. They'd be likely to get beaten the crap out of if identified. These wonky Baptists though have not been harmed enough at all.

Why does Westboro Church get away with more than the KKK does today and still gets away with it? Because they have -two- things on their side. It isn't just freedom of speech they use. They also have freedom of religion on their side and zealots KNOW how to use the system to their advantage. They always have. It's why tons of people do not yet understand what Evolution is because it cannot be explained properly in schools. It's also an excuse commonly used for why people ignore zealots who raise children abusively to follow their paths. It's a way how people who are criminals get out of jail early and go back to what they do and it's why we have a 12 step program for drug abuse that only manages to help less than 10% of people in rehabilitation instead of actually addressing the issue that people have 'addictive personalities'.

The KKK even uses religion as a motivator excuse for their actions but they've done atrocities in the past that mark them as far worse. There are many more tolerant Christian groups out there that do not express hatred and try to teach understanding. There are quite a few Christians in science that believe in Evolution despite the teachings of the Bible though radicals will go ahead and label them as not true Christians. However, these tolerant Christian groups make a severe mistake and think that Agnostics, Atheists and other groups are just against 'Christianity' when we speak. They don't get it that these purely hateful zealots are a serious problem and they should not just be accepting it. This is why the Westboro Baptist Church gets away with what it does. They are scum of the earth that even make some Christians tremble in rage but not a single group of Christians will stand against them and -seriously- call them out and demand some kind of justice.

Until Christians stop protecting other Christians and they lose the 'martyr' personalities and just say some groups are 'misguided' we will continue to see these crimes go on. If this group was of any other religion, they would be laughed at, sued, and broken up for being the hate group they truly are. They'd be banned from picketing outside funerals because they cause instant hate to rise up in others who just want to have the rights to bury their relatives in peace and say goodbye to their dearly departed ones. There is -no- reason in my mind why anyone who has ever lost someone close to them and has gone to the funeral of said person cannot imagine the feeling of trying to deal with the death at the same time as there is a hateful radical idiotic group feet away with pickets who shout rotten things. I mean, seriously, imagine it. What would you feel? Why are people not protecting -these people's- rights more than this radical Christian group? Hell, most of those people are probably Christian too though not of the same denomination. Most of the funerals conducted are Christian and it's not good enough to get a law yet that bans these people from the acts. We should be protecting the families who lose life; not freedom of religion and speech for this hate group.

I feel that until something disastrous happens where some funeral gathered group finally has had it with this behavior and blood flies, that nothing will be done. It's sad to say but in the end, probably that funeral gathered group will get boned up the ass for physical violence and this is exactly what these martyr baptists want. However, it's also the point where people might listen more and do something to make a law that prevents picketing at funerals so that it takes away some of the wind from these people's bagpipes. I know if I was at a funeral and these asses showed up, I'd probably do something to get rid of them. Enough is enough.

Also, on the comment of brainwashing... any person that teaches their kid hate through the right of religion, that's just wrong. It is brainwashing and as a person who lived through it and knows several other people who were abused as children and mistreated with brainwashing and physical abuse, I can say it does indeed exist. As mentioned above, there are nicer Christian groups out there but instead of understanding that some radicals do exist, they choose to insist that brainwashing and abuse does not happen to the numbers that it in fact does. This is exactly the problem. Good and Christian are not two words that go together just as Terrorist and Muslim do not. Anyone has to earn the right to be called 'good' regardless of beliefs. I wish more Christians would actually look more into the crimes of these radical groups and stop thinking that everyone is attacking every Christian out there. It's seriously time to drop the martyr card and look at the crimes committed by others whether you like it or not. Not all Christians are created equal.

 

I agree. It is terrible when children are forced to follow a religion and if they don't, are abused until they do. It does have terrible consequences on their lives. All I was trying to say was that this doesn't happen with all families. But since you seem to understand that, I'll go ahead and drop that point now.

P.S. "Brainwash" and "indoctrinate" are not the same words. All children, to some extent, are indoctrinated by their parent's beliefs. But that doesn't mean the child has been brainwashed.

There's really no difference between free speech and hate. What these people are saying is terrible, and it's their opinion. "Equal" means that we, as human beings, have the same basic rights. It means that one man has the same rights as another. It has nothing to do with who is more "worthy" of being treated as a human being. And you say you would consider yourself more "worthy" than these people. You are essentially saying that you have more of a right to be human than these people do (whether that's what you think you mean or not, it's what you're saying). Who can decide that? I think these people are horrible. But what right do I have to decide that, because neither I nor anyone else likes them, they are less "worthy" of being human than I am?

Uh...no...they're not illegal. Where did you hear that?

They can be held legally responsible for their actions. However, they aren't always held responsible, and even when they are, they do not always lose in court. That probably ties into why they don't get fined.

You think Westboro does not recieve animosity? They are not a well-liked group (More on that below).

I'm also not sure whether it's true that they protest at the funerals of gay people. I know they do it to soldiers, but it's not because the soldiers are gay... Could you please show me evidence (a news article or something) that indicates they do that to gays as well?

Just a note: why did you stick an "even" before "Obama's grandmother"? She is no more (or less) important than a soldier and or gay person.

Thank you, I forgot to mention that: freedom of religion.

But... what makes you think "tons of people" do not understand evolution? And, uh... if those kind of people are caught, they get arrested and their children are taken away from them. How is freedom of religion a way for people to get out of jail early?

I know a couple people who are in 12 step programs, and the programs have helped them immensely. The programs also addresses the addictive personalities; it's something they discuss in every meeting.

Blaming all of this on freedom of religion is a little strange... no offense...

I'm sorry, but you really need to back off Christianity and realize that we (Christians) are not the problem. The "problem", if that's the word we're going to use instead of "explanation", is that everybody has equal rights, and that foul people are allowed to express their foul opinion. How do you know that we haven't tried to stand against them? Just because we can't stop them from doing whatever foul things they do doesn't mean we don't despise them with all our hearts. Nor does it keep us from trying to stop them. Do you actually know people who are trying to protect this group? Do you know anyone who says "They're Christians! It's our duty to protect them!" I sure don't. I do, however, know plenty of people (Christians and non-Christians alike!) who say the exact opposite thing.

What are we... no, what is ANYONE supposed to do? Deny them their rights as human beings? Say, "I'm sorry, but because your opinion is evil and is causing damage, we can't allow you to express it anymore."?

(FYI, you don't have to believe strictly in either evolution or that God created humans the way we are today. I, for example, believe that God created evolution. It's not one thing or the other.)

May I ask you an honest question? Do you live in the United States? Neither Westboro nor the K.K.K. are well liked here. On the contrary, most people would like to get rid of them. Almost everybody, Christian or not, deeply despises them. This isn't about Christians protecting Christians; it's about us simply not being able to do anything about these people, because of their rights. Nobody's protecting them by saying "These people have rights!" Westboro and other hate groups are protected because the rights themselves simply exist. And for the record, I have not ever, ever, EVER met anyone, Christian or not, who has any desire to defend these people or their actions. Have you met anyone who does? And I don't think it would be any different if this group was from a different religion. Christianity has nothing to do with why these people still exist.

Another question... could you name a few hate groups that have actually been broken up in the US?

One more thing: it's not like there isn't any protection from these people for grieving families.

I agree; violence is probably exactly what these people are looking for. But even when something like that happens, nothing can be done.

I would too. My father is retired from the Navy and has risked his life a fair number of times in Iraq. If he had died in that war and these people came to the funeral saying that he deserved to die for being a soldier, I'd be so angry I wouldn't be able to see straight.

Again, there is protection for the people at the funeral against these hate groups.

Yes, when a person teaches their child to hate through religion, it is very wrong indeed, and of course abuse and brainwashing exists. But it's often not the case. And I really wish you'd lay off Christianity a little bit. Who says we insist these groups don't exist? Who says we deny that these things happen? Perhaps there are some who do, but I can tell you, they are very few and far between. No, "good" and "Christian" are not interchangeable. But many Christians do strive to do good. That is what we are taught. About "terrorist" and "Muslim"... they are not interchangeable either, but I will say that right now, the US is in the most danger from radical (note the word radical!) Muslims. But, no, certainly not every Muslim is a terrorist.

By the way, there are plenty of people who would attack another person just because that person is Christian. There are also plenty of people who would not, and there are still more people who would celebrate the difference in religion, rather than just tolerate it. This goes for all belief systems, (including atheism) not just Christianity! In every belief system, there are extremists, there are celebrators, and there are tolerators. That's not solely a Christian thing. And it's not like all Christians are fanatics, or that we all think everybody's out to get us.

 

Yes, this is true. I know not all parents force children to their beliefs and some actually encourage their children to explore. However, I think you make light on the fact that it does happen. It goes on quite a bit. I have lived through it as have several others. This brainwashing and domination of will that some parents do is horrendous and I've seen many atrocities that have been caused by it. Some children have even committed suicide because they can't meet their parents' expectations.

Actually in law there is such a difference between free speech and hate speech. The right to free speech means that the government will not penalize you for saying something, despite how it may even be against the government. However, people take free speech for granted. It does not mean that there are -no- repercussions for what someone says. You are always responsible for the words you utter. This is where 'hate speech' comes into effect. Hate speech actually is able to be prosecuted if it turns around that it causes problems with society such as what is clearly going on with these baptists vs people attending funerals. I agree that no one is more 'worthy' of the right to speak freely. However, hate speech is what it is and some people do need to be dealt with in order to keep the peace.

Westboro Church does receive some complaints and gripes. However, they are given police protection in order to do their protests and the police themselves hate the job but have to do it. Why? Because we must protect idiots that cannot control their judgmental speech and would dare to protest where others would have souls and would simply not have the heart to do it. The police, who hate it, must defend these people from a damn good ass-whooping. So not only do they get away with what they do...they are protected to continue.

They have protested against gays at funerals and also at other events such as at Glendale. They have also protested against gays rather openly such as with this:

You also mention about why I singled out Obama's grandmother. Because these idiots went and protested at her funeral about Obama's belief in abortion rights and gay rights. Why would a bunch of people go and protest for this stuff at his grandmother's funeral? They are his beliefs; not what she may have believed in. They don't know this woman. I use this as an example but this is hardly the only example of this group humiliating people and making it so people cannot mourn their dead.

In this country, there are MANY children and adults who do not understand Evolution and quite a few creationists out there who think we lived like the Flintstones did. The Evangelical rising movement especially and the Presbyterian movement are very radical and they even help sponsor groups and corporations that push for creationism to be taught in science and many teachers actually are threatened often by students and parents to not teach Evolution properly. Many have to skip and gloss over it and really most people who learn what evolution exactly is are people that study on their own or go to college. There are some serious figures that guestimate that around 50% of people believe in Creationism in this country. There are also quite a few statistics and just in the end, real life encounters that suggest most people do not even get what evolution is. Even on this board, quite a few members have had debates on what Evolution is. The facts are there to prove what I say.

12 Step programs only again help 10% or less people in rehabilitation. Why? Because people are trading one addiction for a religious addiction. It either works or it fails utterly. The point here is that science and psychology should be used more to help people with addictive personalities to cope better, whether they find religion or not. In the 12 Step Program, it is rather mandatory to believe in God and it is pushed down people's throats. For a true cure, the person needs focus; not another addiction.

Actually, yes, until Christians see the crimes done by other Christians and stop excusing them...that IS the problem. In this country at any rate, because Christianity is the #1 religion and the most religious crimes that happen come from Christians. There are even Christian organizations that clearly can be defined as terrorists in this country but they are let to continue because of it. An Islam cult would be dealt with as soon as it is found. We even deal with Mormon cults that arise but Christian cults are let to develop till people die.

It isn't the point that people say 'it's our duty to protect them'. It's the point that radical Christian groups flourish because to many Christians, they aren't seen as a problem. As long as someone believes in Jesus and God to these people, you are not an issue. You won't hear the threats or receive the trash as greatly as someone who is not a Christian so it's not noticed. This is the point why people who are Christian often think others are bashing the religion entirely and get defensive instead of understanding all that we want is for something to be done about radical groups that threaten others' freedoms. If you don't live the life of a muslim, hindu, atheist, agnostic, buddhist, etc, you won't see the same way others do unless you actually understand what they go through and care. Are there Christians out there who are more open minded? Yes. However, there are a great many that do not look outside their circle and so they do not see what these radical groups do and therefore it is not a problem. There IS a problem and more Christians need to start seeing it. That is what I am saying. Of course, you would take it that I am bashing all Christians, but I am not. I am saying that more Christians need to open their eyes to the injustices caused by radical groups because certainly every other radical group gets dealt with except theirs.

What is anyone supposed to do? Protect the free speech and right of people to mourn their dead without people showing up to protest it. See it as the crime it is and the unnatural cruelty it is. Protect the ones who are actually suffering instead of defending the ones that cause the problems and hide behind the law to cover them. What these people say about gays and soldiers, and others who disagree with them is inhumane. They have no right to be at a funeral where someone is being buried and people are saying their final farewells, whether it's a Christian service or not, to deal with people condemning that person's life over on the sidelines and saying that person is going to Hell. In any service, it would be the right of the family to oust a disturber like that. So these people bring 100 or more asses to the funerals to yell out things instead so they can be 'heard'. I don't think a law to protect people from these kinds of idiots is too much to ask before someone finally has enough and goes on a kill spree for the angst they cause. Hell, it would protect the idiots as much as those who wish to just love someone dearly departed. If nothing else should be sacred, why the hell can't a funeral be? It's more of a right to fight for than these wacky people's ideals.

Also, whether you believe in Evolution or not, the thing is this. Creationism does not belong being taught in Biology. You know where it belongs to be taught? In church or in a World Religious class. It's quite sad that because some Christians feel a World Religious class in High School is inappropriate because it teaches kids other views as well, that it isn't accepted. However, I wish more people were for it so that it exposed children to a variety of things and would teach more open-mindedness. It would also be where such things as the Bible could be introduced. Science should teach science. Religion should teach religion. They should not be intermingled because some people feel it is right.

I am definitely a citizen of the U.S. and was in the army. I know quite a bit about the KKK and Westboro and also other Christian groups that are radical that threaten people daily. Again, I point out the fact that unless you as a Christian are willing to start seeing the harm these people do to those who are not Christian, you really cannot judge.

When they physically do acts, they are broken up. Actually, a K.K.K group was busted recently for actions and it happens often enough. Here are lists of hate groups in the U.S. and note that quite a few are churches. Also, others, such as the K.K.K. use religion as a crutch to their methods.
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp
http://www.unitedstatesaction.com/list-us-hate-groups.htm

This is specifically why this Church connects with others and also why at funerals they can show up en mass and protest so that they can be heard while cops have to protect them. Yep, I'd want to see these idiots at a funeral I go to.

Again, what protection? I've watched the funerals which these people show up at. They should not be allowed -near- the funeral. They should not be allowed at all near the territory. As said, they are asking for violence and I fear the day someone answers them. What can be done? I've already said. Ban them from protesting anywhere near the funeral. They can do it elsewhere if it's that big a deal to them.

Many people whether Christian or not want to be 'good'. This is the problem. You want others to lay off Christians because you are one. However, too many Christians say such horrible things to others that it's about time other Christians started paying attention and telling these people to stop judging others. This is exactly my point. Don't toss out the martyr card going 'oh poor Christians are so misunderstood'. Be a GOOD person and tell other Christians who bash people because of race, gender, wearing what clothes people want to, sexual orientation, religion, etc to stop judging. Anyone of any background can be a good person. Also, I'd debate whether we are in more trouble by radical Muslims in this country or radical Christians. I have plenty of friends who are Christian. However, radical Christians are a serious harm to our education system, to our productivity, to even our voting procedures. Again, I say to you that if the moderate tolerant Christians would tell these people to back off others and would help stop prejudice and bias, they would receive a lot more respect. Until then, I do not think it fair that any Christian should be saying 'woe is us that we are judged so badly' because it's simply not without reason. If more people would work together and stop viewing others as against them, we could really make things better in this country instead of letting judgmental pricks run the show all the time.

By the way, there are less people that are hostile towards Christians than the other way around. There are many people out there, Christian and of other religions or lack there of that just want to get along. Look on that site I posted and see all the radical Christian groups that Christians don't seem to know exist. Look them up and see their crimes. Actually research. Also, you are again trying to say that I said that 'all Christians' are fanatics. I did not say this at all. I am saying that there are a ton of radical Christian groups that if moderate Christians would offer some help with and show their disapproval for their acts, things would be better. Most Christians have no idea about how serious of crimes these radicals do or how hypocritical some of these groups really are. I can get along with -most- Christians. I'm not saying they do not strive to be decent people just as I do. However, instead of crying hatred and sorrow over what other groups who believe differently than they do say...how about helping quell these morons who make Christians look bad? It'd be nice.

 

Repliku is ****ing incredible. That was arguably the most intelligent user-submitted thing I've ever read online. If you are ever in the Tulsa metro region, I insist on buying you a drink.

 

Sorry for the spam but this thread is seriously ridiculous. Repliku you beast. XD

 

... sorry for the spam, here, too.

Repliku is just fantastic. Such a good read.

EDIT:

I noticed you touched on how Christians are a serious threat to our educational systems, productivity and the like. That is very true... but there's something grossly overshadowing them in terms of a threat. The pope, the Swiss guard, the UCC... all of these things are far more dangerous than radical Christianity, imo. Most of these Evangelical X groups, Born Again and the like, are nothing compared to that of the Catholic church. Since they hold veto power and almost total control over the banking and economic & political system, they'd always be the final verdict. So it doesn't matter what the radical Christian groups do, the "accepted" Catholic church and other portions that are widely accepted from it are still to be seriously interpolated with consideration and analyzation. That's just my opinion, though.

 

That's quite sad.

I never said there couldn't be repercussions for what someone says. But unfortunately, unless things get violent it is legal for these people to hold protests. They have the right. I also believe communities have the right to issue permits limiting where these groups can go (some already have).

Exactly. Are you agreeing with me or trying to contradict me? Nobody wants to protect them. The people who do protect them hate doing so. I believe that's what I was saying before, was it not?

If I'm not mistaken, you just proved my point. Thanks.

Okay, then. I just wasn't sure, that's all. But now that I know, my opinion on them has just gotten worse.

Although, I do only see mention of gays in the first example...

I wasn't actually questioning why what they did was stupid. I was wondering why you implied that she was more important as a human than these other people (soldiers, gays, etc).

Alrighty, then. But I'd have thought you'd be able to figure out that the Christians who do those things are extremists, like groups who say Harry Potter or Tetris is evil, or groups like Westboro. Hmmm... anyway, most Christians don't do stuff like that. The ones who do are radicals, and they do crazy things, just like radicals in all belief systems (including atheism) do.

Religion is not an addiction. Religion is a belief, and in the case of Christianity, a relationship with God. "A religious addiction"... that may not be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, but it's in the Top 10.

If you don't like the 12 step program just because of God, then use a different program. It's not like that's the only program there is. Although it is one of the most helpful (wonder why that is).

The only Christians who are excusing what these creeps are doing are other radicals. And like I've already said, these extremists are immensely outnumbered by the rest of the Christian population. Yes, it is the #1 religion, which does explain why religious crimes are generally held by radical Christians.

Oh, and there was an incident where a Christian cult was shut down in Texas a few years back. Radical Christians do get stopped on occasion if things get bad enough.

Do you get it? This is radical behavior! It's not the majority of Christians!

And, ummmmmm... Mormons are Christians :blink: When you use the word "Christian", you're referring to all Christians, not just a certain type. I think I warned you about about making generalizing statements by using "Christian", didn't I? But you ignored it, and now look what happened. You totally contradicted yourself.

*sigh* No, you don't get it...

Many radical Christians support their behaviors. Many radical Christians think what hate groups are doing is okay. The rest of us think they're all nuts and would like nothing more than to get rid of them. Most of us are willing to (and do) look outside our own circle of religion.

Really? That's interesting. I think more non-Christians should open their eyes and see that most of us are in fact against these people. All of us, in fact, except for the radicals! (Do you get it now?)

That's the thing, though. It's not a crime unless it gets physical. And it is unnatural cruelty, but it's legal unless violence starts.

Okay. Did you actually read anything I wrote? I'll say it one more time: People aren't protecting them. The existence of rights protects them. Nobody's defending them. No one is trying to save these people's butts,, except other radicals (I hope this horse is already dead by now, but just in case I'm going to beat it to a pulp anyway). And all I'm doing is saying that yes, these people have rights. I'm not PROTECTING them. I'm STATING A FACT! It's an unfortunate fact, but a fact.

And it won't be Westboro's fault if someone goes on a killing spree. That is the person's choice. They chose to go on a killing spree. "They made me so mad, I just couldn't control myself!" No. You make your own choices.

No, it does not. I never said it does. But some Christians feel that way. Others don't. You seem to be only pointing out the worst of us...

In some cases, it's a good idea for them to be intermingled, although Evolution is not necessarily one of those cases.

What? "Because some people feel it is right?" O-kay...

Okay, just checking. Of course I see the harm these people do. So do many other people. That was my whole point.

How am I judging? Or is that even directed towards me?

I meant completely broken up. As in, they're separated and that's it. No more of those creeps. And how many of those groups have actually been broken up? All I see is are lists of active hate groups.

What "others", exactly?

No, they shouldn't be allowed. But they are by law. And as I have said before, some communities have permits that limit where these people can protest.

Yes, I want other people to lay off them because I am one. That's partially the reason. But it's also partially that people seem to single us out as troublemakers. I am not saying "Oh, woe is me!" I'm simply pointing out the unfortunate fact that, because of what these few radicals do, as a group we are given a bad name. Not throwing a pity party here, just stating the facts.

That's what I've been trying to tell you. We have been speaking out against them. Nobody wants these guys around!

Actually, I think we have a right to say, "We are misjudged." simply because often we are (not all the time). We just don't have the right to go "Oh, us poor Christians! We're sooo misunderstood! Nobody understands why we're so great!" People (not all, just some) do misunderstand or judge Christians, and I think we have a right to acknowledge that fact without being accused of defending groups like Westboro. We just shouldn't start feeling superior about it because we think nobody understands our greatness and that's why they don't like us.

One more thing: how many people have been actually killed by radical Christians as opposed to radical Muslims?

I'm well aware of this... I was just saying that there are always some people who will hate someone just because of their belief. I did not say most people; I just said that there are indeed such people. I do not recall saying that there were more of the haters than the tolerators/celebrators, or even that were as many. And I know people want to "get along". I myself am close to an atheist family, and we both respect each other's beliefs and are very good friends. You don't have to tell me that other religions get along; I am perfectly aware of this.

We (for the most part) are very well aware of their existence. I have already explained this but you seem to insist otherwise. Oh well, if you don't want to listen, that's not my problem...

How do you know "most Christians" have no idea? Do you know "most Christians"? I sure don't, but I think I can safely say that, being a Christian myself and knowing many, many, many, man,y MANY others, that quite a few understand the trouble these guys cause. Not necessarily "most", although I'm willing to bet that most are aware of these problems (but I have no way of knowing if it's most or not. Neither do you, so I suggest you not use that word).

You seem to be judging us (as a whole - you have acknowledged that not everyone is like what you said), and yet you are saying we have no right to point that out because then we're just complaining and defending these groups? That's hardly fair. Just because somebody acknowledges that some people judge Christians does not mean we're defending these horrible people or their actions.

To sum it up... the reason Westboro is allowed to exist is because of their freedom of speech and religion rights. I don't know how I ended up having to defend Christianity and defend my defending of Christianity, but all that stuff is really irrelevant. What matters is that these people have rights of free speech and free religion, and that's why they are allowed to exist. Not because they're Christian or because a lot of Christians are protecting them, but because of their rights.

Also, I'm not sure... but I think I sense an anti-Christian (anti-religion in general, but targeting Christianity) tone in your argument. I could be wrong, but that's just the feeling I'm getting by reading your posts.

...

A) You don't spend much time online, then, do you?

B) Then don't post in it if it's so ridiculous. And actually, what makes it ridiculous?

C) Is it just me, or is everyone disregarding what I'm saying because, to quote Son of Sam's polite and graceful articulation, "Repliku is ****ing incredible"? My post is actually quite intelligent too, if I do say so myself...

 

Just because the Christian community does not come out and and say "We defend the actions of the Westboro Baptist church", doesn't mean they aren't aiding them. There is a fine line between direct action and gross negligence. Really, if other Christian groups are not trying to stop their own (as the Westboro Baptist Church claims to be doing the work of the Christian god) then it is almost as bad as actively defending their actions.

Also, since when do Christians have the right to judge anyone? I thought that only god was allowed to judge others. And I have been told before (rather blatantly too) many times by someone I thought was my friend that I was going to burn in hell. What right does he, or any Christian (using the word Christian here because I am unsure of who is allowed to judge in other theistic belief systems), have to judge others? Especially those of different belief systems.

Also, what Cin meant when he said ridiculous was the length of the posts. Most of the activity in this section tends to only generate short to medium length posts. Then there are the few members (like yourself and Repliku) who really put the boat out and generate literary masterpieces like those above. It really is quite hard to keep up xD

 

How is it negligence when we can't do anything about the problem? We are very well aware of the damage Westboro causes, but we're unable to do anything by law. Westboro has the right to express their opinion, however foul it may be. And like I said, some communities have issued permits preventing anyone (including groups like Westboro) from protesting in certain areas (like funerals). So some action is being taken. I also mentioned that a group was actually shut down at one point a few years ago.

Like I said, we aren't aiding them. No one's aiding them except other radicals. Most Christians would love to get rid of these people and have tried to many times. But it's not like we can just go up to them and say, "Hey, you're hurting a lot of people. Do you think you could stop?" and they'll listen. They don't listen to us. They don't care what we think about them. We also can't do anything by law, because these people are taking advantage of their rights effectively in order to do what they do.

But, yeah. We Christians are just too lazy or don't care enough to fix an easily remedied problem. All we do is complain about it, but we don't do anything to solve the problem, which can be solved quite easily. I suppose, then, that non-Christians doing something about it is out of the question, since they seem to know how to fix it and it's done so easily >_> Seriously, it's not just our responsibility to stop these guys. Why are we the only ones who should try and stop these people? And why are we the only ones who get the blame when they aren't stopped?

How exactly am I judging, or implying that Christians have the right to judge? I said we have the right to acknowledge that sometimes, people do judge us. I never said we had the right to judge others. We don't. Nobody has the right to judge anyone. What I did say was that we don't have the right to feel superior or anything when people do judge us.

I'm not saying you will burn in hell, either. That's a horrible thing to say and I would never say something like that to anyone. Anyone who says that is either radical or just plain mean.

Also, I don't think God really "judges" people. It makes Him sad when people deliberately disobey Him, but He loves all of us just the same (even those who don't even believe in Him).

Ahhh... I thought he meant the topic XD I thought it was a pretty good question and couldn't figure out what was wrong with it lol.

 

They express their views in a way that they choose to. Unfortunately it's a little thing called free speech and religious freedom

 

It becomes a different matter when rights conflict. Their right of free speech and "religious freedom" is conflicting with every homosexual in the worlds right to live their lives without harassment. As well as anyone who is "*** enabler", as they call them (they said that Princess Diana, one of the most loved and caring women in the world, "split hell wide open" when she died). Personally I think that quashes their right to do anything of the sort.

 

With all due respect, Princess Diana was not the most caring person in the world. She merely had money and press coverage.

And she was on the verge of Islamic conversion.

 

What would it matter if she converted to Islam? Also, she may not have been the most caring person, but she certainly wouldn't have split hell wide open (not that such a place exists). That could probably fall under defamation.

 

I agree with you there bunter.
I mean teaching hatred like that is exactly what hitler taught and his beliefs and teachings can now get you about 3 years.Why is this case different?

the one thing you have to think about though is a persons capacity to think.Once there children grow up they will question what there parents believe in.Slowly as they grow up life will give them there own point of view and slowly they will question there parents beliefs and drift away...

 

In the documentary it showed that several of the children had left, but those that remained were so deeply indoctrinated there really didn't seem to be much hope =[ Certainly some level of child abuse.

 

yes it should be considered child abuse.Have you ever seen the documentary "Root Of All Evils".you would be sickened to see some of the extremist religious people.Showing children horrifying things you'd see in horror movies.

 

There we go, another charge to bring to the list. How long will we have to wait until the government and law enforcement agencies realise that these people contribute nothing positive to society?