Unique Abilities, Limited v.s. Stock Abilities, Unlimited

My question to you: which do you prefer?
Do you like it when a KH game gives you a variety of unique abilities, but you have to pick and choose which ones you want, or when you have more generic abilities but you can catch em all if you put in the time?
Personally, I prefer the latter, as seen in Birth by Sleep
I much prefer the idea that I CAN eventually have every ability, even if I don't actually get them all, the OPTION is there. It feels limiting to me when I have 36 AP and have to choose what ability I want

 

I like being able to pick and choose because then I am not overwhelmed with them. It's nice to be able to mess with a set of them at a time and be able to pick a favorite and stick with it if you wish to.

Unlimited abilities aren't bad though. I liked the way BBS was set up. And like you said, you can eventually get every ability. So I do like having that option.

However, I think being able to pick them grabs my interest more.
KH2 man.....<3

 

KH2/1. By end game you could equip most, if not all the stuff you wanted anyway.
BBS was cool and all, but it got cheap fast with Second Chance/Once More 1/10 into the game.
And lastly, tying them to Dream Eater on DDD sucked. It was either Dream Eaters I liked or good abilities >_>

 

I actually liked KH2, because it let you think on what abilities you should have, what helps your stats, what fits your play style, etc.

Being able to have every ability isn't bad, but at the same time, once you find abilities you like, you just stick with them forever, which can get a bit repetitive. Sure KH2 can be the same way, but thinking about the abilities you should have over the other is a nice touch. Just a bit of strategy to it.

 

I like Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2's way the most. While I can't equip everything I kind of like that. It gives me a limit of what I can bring into certain battles so I get to be more strategic.
DDD is probably my least favorite considering how long the dream eaters take for me.
I kind of liked BBS' but it didn't stand out as much for me.

 

I think the system in KH1&2 gives an additional level of strategy. It becomes less of an issue as your AP gets higher, but early on you have to make several crucial designs regarding which abilities to equip. There was that to an extent in Birth by Sleep, but far less so. I didn't feel BBS's system was very intuitive, either. It didn't make much sense to me.

Haven't played Dream Drop Distance so I can't speak for that.

 

Isn't Birth By Sleep more limiting though? You can only have a set amount (10 or so slots?) but in KH2 (especially FM+ on CM) you can have way more on at a time.

 

You're confusing commands with abilities
n BBS, you can have every ability equipped at once, but in KH2, there's only so much AP you can have, even with AP boosts

 

Ah, I guess I wasn't thinking correctly. That changes things a lot. Well I still enjoy the KH2 version more. I didn't like getting abilities in Birth By Sleep. The fact you had to use certain crystals and then max out the level on each command was a pain...until I started using actual grinding techniques. But still a pain to get and you could basically get any ability once you had the right materials.

 

The former for me. At least I can plan my strategy on what can I use and what I don't need. Also, you'll be able to equip most of them when you're level 99 anyways.

 

that's just the thing. You can't. Even by grinding for AP boosts, there's an arbitrary limit on your AP. You'll be missing a lot of abilities, one way or another

 

I prefer the BBS way. It allows me to have all, and as much abilities equipped as I want. I personally didn't like how DDD handled abilities. It felt too limiting, considering you needed to have specific Dream Eaters in your party to have the abilities you wanted. KH1 and KH2 was okay when handling abilities, but I found it frustrating when I didn't have enough AP to equip some abilities I wanted, thus forcing me to sacrifice some abilities for newer abilities.

 

Am I the only one whose never had the AP issue? xD Granted, this might be because I had the AP boosting items on, but I was pretty much able to equip every ability on Sora/Donald/Goofy in KH2 without much issue.

Anyway. I think I'm looking forward to going back to the KH/KH2 ability setup. I've only played Coded and Days so far, but I haaaaated Days' panel ability system. I liked Coded's though, it was pretty snazzy gaining abilities as you filled the click gauge in battle (depending on the keyblade of course).

 

I'm sure it's not a surprise to some people that I don't prefer the BBS system.

This is why. I was never a fan of melding commands, and this just added another layer of annoyance for me. Still better than DDD's though.

kh2>kh1>Days>BBS>DDD>Re:C

 

Actually, I think the system should be even more restricting than in KHII. Honestly, why are you giving me a choice when I can eventually equip everything anyway? Instead of being a war room where I sit and meditate on the best strategies and tools for a given situation, the Abilities screen eventually becomes just another tedious micromanagement menu that I have to update periodically. BbS and 3D missed a brilliant opportunity to add depth to the combat when they gave you the ability to set your own elemental resistances... then allowed you to max them all out. Make me choose, Squeenix! Force me to decide if I want to be impervious to this guy's icicle attacks or not get totally obliterated by that one chick and her Dark Firaga spell that takes up the whole screen! You're an RPG company from the analog age, why are you so bad at combat design?!

"Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing." I'd prefer to take the hit to my AP and see each player develop their own ability set that they can't live without, rather than have so much freedom that everyone looks the same in the end. It makes the game more fun to play and to watch. Of course, I sincerely hope the abilities themselves are not taken from Kingdom Hearts II, as all of those abilities sucked and I left half of them unequipped because it actually made the game easier to play. The special attacks come to mind in particular. I miss Blitz... So simple, so efficient.

 

The difference in design between an RPG and an action game generally dictate that you be more forgiving with immunities in an action game. In an RPG, at least older ones, you move at a more plodding, almost themed pace. In a game like KH, where action is fast, the enemies are numerous, and you can't even see exactly how much damage you're taking, overly specific elemental weaknesses lose most of their impact.
One thing I CAN say is that Critical level one runs of KH games make these benefits much more noticeable, but simply by virtue of what reduces your health to zero instantly and what doesn't.
Another thing about KH is that you never REALLY know what you'll be facing next. Sure in Agrabah there are a couple of fire enemies, but there are just as many ice enemies, and it's not like any of the other elements disappear either. And the enemies in KH generally aren't distinct enough for the average player to worry about making one specific type easier. I'm pretty sure the only things people would want protection against would be getting comboed to death, easily the most common form of death in most KH games.

 

...Which is totally untrue for Kingdom Hearts because you can block/dodge everything.

I think that's the real reason it doesn't work. Damage scaling is garbage from KHII onward, because they're all using that system, and I'm not going to bother detailing the infernal depths to which I despise that system, but suffice it to say there's no spot of hope in terms of how hard the hellions hit. If damage overall was lessened, but elemental weaknesses made up a greater portion of that damage, then it would work better and make more sense to play with the idea of juggling resistances. But then, if damage was lessened they'd have to put more work into the AI so it could actually hit you once in a blue moon without resorting to absurd reach, battlefield-spanning combos, or a lame option select - and that's apparently too much work.

Ok, so... is that different from a traditional RPG? Yeah, if you're in a volcano, you're gonna run into a lot of blazin' baddies, but you might stumble upon some earth warriors as well. With how quickly one enters and exits combat in KH, it would not be unreasonable to go into your first fight unprepared, emerge with some damage dealt but lessons learned, and go into the next ten to fiteen properly equipped.

 

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this.

It is different. In Final Fantasy, you'll be introduced to a new area with a select few enemies that you'll become at least a little intimately familiar with by journey's end. You'll start to pick up on things like "oh ****, it's that giant thing, these are a pain to take out" or "Yes, a cluster of these weak frog things, they're so easy to beat with a Fira spell and you get so much EXP"
Meanwhile, the items you collect are largely tailored to what you do. Going into a dungeon full of fire enemies? They'll give you the icebrand... but what's this? They threw you or a loop and put a fire enemy on the middle floor! Now your ice weapon is useless! Luckily you have a black mage who can take care of things, though this wastes precious MP, however, if you , look around you can find a secret passage with a firebrand, which you can equip on your second sword wielder, NOW no matter what enemy type appears you'll have their weakness.
But what's this? The boss of this dungeon is Odin! In the dungeon you found two thunder bracelets, which reduce lightning damage by 25%... but who do you use them on? your white mage and black mage are pretty fragile, so they could use the defense, but you COULD use it on your warriors instead and keep them fighting longer...

See, the slower pace allows you to develop a stronger idea of what's going on. In KH things are so fast paced and rapidly changing that you really have no reason to be constantly changing your equipment, most players will admit it's hardly worth the time it takes to press the L button to quick-cast blizzard on an enemy for extra damage, never mind actively pausing trying to actively predict which mod you'll face next.

Honestly, the most practical use for elemental buffs in KH is for when you're having trouble on a specific boss or mob

 

There's no need to be forgiving with weaknesses of any kind in a game where you can dodge or block them. I would venture to say that you have it harder in RPGs, where your only chance to dodge a lethal strike is pure RNG. If what you were implying is that there are so many enemies in the average action game that for each of them to have unique stats and elemental strengths would be pointless because they all blend together, then yeah, I agree on some level; but KH shouldn't be hitting that level. More enemies does not equal harder gameplay. Some of my greatest struggles in 3D were against pairs of endgame baddies. In that kind of fight, I would definitely take notice if one guy used wind and another one used ice, and if I had the tools I'd plan accordingly. I don't think it's that easy to classify all RPGs or all actions games and line up what works and what doesn't in each genre; it depends on what you're going for. But I think an action RPG should definitely be going for substance over style (though a good one would manage both cough original KH.)

I'm not talking about switching after every fight, for Pete's sake. I'm talking about bothering to switch anything at all, throughout the entire course of the game. I can run any new world without messing with my abilities, straight up.

But Kingdom Hearts uses the exact same formula as those old RPGs. In fact, in the original I knew a number of people who would get stuck on Ursula, and I'd ask them if they found the Thunder Bracelets or whatever they are lying around Atlantica. Most of 'em would say no. And do you know how much easier Agrabah would be for me on Expert if I ever stopped to check that my party had fire-resistant accessories on?

If you don't stop to check your gear that often, that's your business, but this series used to punish you for it same as any other RPG would, and it didn't sacrifice fast pace or fun to do that. It's not that it doesn't work fundamentally, it's that it doesn't work anymore because the developers got lazy-*ahem*, the design focus shifted.