Kingdom Hearts II *Theory Spoilers* Org XIII wins!

They win... They get there wish... in Kingdom Hearts 2, everything was one big waste. Sora does the most idiotic thing, letting Org XIII win.

Everything they did worked. I think its only right that that happens.

Nomura backed my theory up himself.

 

Um... What?

I'm kinda confused with what you're saying... Care to explain exactly how they won in better detail, please?

 

Nomura said that when a heartless is defeated, the heart goes dormant and waits for the soul to return. If the nobody is then defeated, the soul returns, and the person returns to thier original form.

He said this when talking about Axel, and he explained that Axel actually didnt die. Now with this... we KNOW, that Xemnas didnt die, because we defeated his heartless in KH1.

And we probably defeated the rest, or at least a few, or the rest of Organization XIII's heartless prior to thier nobodies.

So, Organization XIII exist. At least we know Axel and Xemnas have returned to thier original state.

I'm speculating the others did as well. Why do you think they didnt care that Sora could wipe them out 1 at a time? And always attacked him 1 on 1 anyways?

 

You're right...maybe they'll talk more about it in kh3.

 

Alright, so we know that Axel and Xemnas are alive again-probably the stronger members are back too-but this is probably what was referred to as "The Next Life". So it's the Organization, but not the Organization.

Because if Xemnas came back as Xemnas, it'd only lead to Nuclear Holocaust. And that's bad. So he's probably now the kid everyone picks on due to the epic amounts of Bad Karma he generated.

 

No... Nomura specifiacally said they return to thier original form, the form they were before they lost thier hearts. Its not reincarnation, its returning to thier original form.

Also, why do you think Xehanort would lead a nuclear holocaust? He said he would have been remorseful for what he did in KH's if he had a heart. He looked almost ashamed he couldnt be remorseful.

Perhaps he learned his lesson. I dont know, he seems to be the last boss in every kingdom hearts, appentently even BbS.

 

Oh shi- Xehanort might come back in kh3!!! Crap, I bet this game is going to be hard with Xehanort being around.

 

Nuclear Holocaust is a joke the kids on the Debate team at my school use, they maintain that if, during a torunament, you can somehow work Nuclear War into your arguement, you instantly win. I just never had a good reason to use the joke yet. It's on the same level as Phoenix Wright's "OBJECTION!". I should've explained that, sorry. (Like, if your were debating against School Uniforms, for instance, you could comically argue the point that "Without self-expression through wardrobe, kids will get angrier and angrier until they start a Nuclear Holocaust!").

They seriously return to their original form? That seems both cool, and really, really awkward. Imagine getting into an elevator with someone you just had to fight in order to save the universe. It would be pretty interesting if they actually were remorseful about what they did, though. How would one go about making up for something like that?

I should probably ask right now where people find these interviews. They seem informative.

 

Oh hell, world war III!!! I mean by Xehanort being around...()_()

 

OBJECTION!

Sorry, just had to say it. :p

 

It happens all the time in the United Nations building.

As much as I dont want it to happen, I believe that Xehanort will somehow manage to be the badguy in KH3.

The other Org members, assuming they make a reapearence, will either have mear cameos, or will each be doing thier own thing. Maybe they will be the new shop owners, replacing moogles alltogether.

Axel will probably be an ally.

 

if that were true i would be so pissed...

your telling me...that everything we did in kingdom hearts 2...to stop the org from collecting hearts...hurt people, attacking entire worlds...

WHEN THEY JUST COULD HAVE BEEN EMO!?

I seriously think this is a stretch no matter how much the info pieces up...ugh...we just went through an entire thread with people screaming at each other over zexion being alive, and now we have to wait for the debate to happen 12 more times? Sorry, its not you, its what I think is going to happen if this gets out of hand...

Anyway to add to the discussion:

I think your idea is a bit flawed...what if the humans are dead? Roxas was lucky because Sora was still living...he could easily return to sora if he were killed. But I'm not so sure about people like xigbar nobodies dont age, and xigbar looked pretty old...his somebody could be dead by now. Plus, even if their somebodies are still living, we cant be sure that Sora or someone else has defeated their heartless...so after the nobody faded away, they still wouldnt make a complete human...

now, i could picture xemnas/xehanort coming back because I believe he is just too powerful to die at the moment by such an (unexperienced) keyblade weilder...

 

Its true, Nomura said its true about Axel. I'm speculating its true of other Org XIII members.

If thier Heartless dies, then thier Nobody dies, then they return to thier original form. All of Org XIII's others are heartless. I'm speculating that they died. We know that Xemnas's did, as thats the objective of KH1.

My theory is no more flawed than Nomura saying that because Axel died, he gets another life. I'm saying if its true of Axel, its probably true of all of them.

Also, thier somebodies are not still living, otherwise thier nobodies wouldnt exist.

The thread was closed because it got hijacked and drove off a cliff with people saying "Riku is stronger than Sora, and Zexion is a little kid henchman, and will never be anything more and anyone who dissagrees with me is an idiot."

 

ahh i c...well i have a theory on top of your theory (im not jacking your thread, im using your ideas -mwahaha)

in kh3, (maybe) xehanort (a complete xehanort) will try to make sora/riku/kairi kill all org 13 member's heartless...so that in the second visit to each world (if there is a second visit) you'll be able to fight each org member's complete person. After, somebodies, are much stronger than nobodies...and if thats the case, the kh3 adventure will be THREE times as harder as the kh1 journey...

 

Is not impossible, but you can never be too sure. I doubt that other than perhaps (even this is a maybe) Axel's Other (Xehanort is a given, he's the main villain of the series), the rest won't all appear in KH3 in their original forms, so you can't say that they particularly won. Sora might've dimmed down the Heartless swarm, but it doesn't mean that there aren't a big amount still left, and any of those can be a Org. member's Heartless.

Some might've, some migth've not, I think it would be up to speculation in the end. Did all the rest return like Xehanort? Did a few? Did none at all?

Though if only Axel's Other appears, and the other members get the boot...again, there's going to one pissed off chic going to Japan to kick Nomura's a**. Enough is enough, after how many games and scenes he's had? O.o There's nothing worse than a director picking favoritism, and I might grow to dislike Axel for his constant hogging of spotlight that might be put to better use.

 

I believe Saix made it too. "Do we have enough? Can I end the charade?" I dont think he was talking about ending Sora's charade, but maybe his own!

 

I am not sure that Nomura meant that all Nobodies go back, or if someone like Axel who actually gave in and accepted the fate and his search was over etc would go back to his 'Somebody' because he did an unselfish act. Nomura wasn't very clear on this and the novel where Namine comments isn't either. It could be though that this was what it meant.

Otherwise, truly the Org's purpose was for nothing at all because all they had to do was give up their existences and they didn't need anything else. None of them but Axel did what he did so it makes sense why he'd not have the same fate as the others. They were all determined to have their Hearts a different way and perhaps Axel's act of 'light' by doing a good deed and being selfless was a sort of second chance for him to restore himself whole and well, get rid of the Darkness that formed his Heartless.

As for the Org, I do not think they are coming back. If they do, it will kind of suck and bereft the point of having had to do all that work in the first place. I think that Xehanort split himself on purpose. I'm almost sure he did if a theory I have is correct, and that he was gearing up to take on possibly the real Master Xehanort in BBS that will be seen or some other worse foe. He did have a purpose.

Also, when he says the lines about not recalling anything other than negative emotions, it's what he felt and a Heart probably wouldn't change it much since that 'is' what he remembers. He was obviously out for revenge and building up things against something more and Sora was just a tool to getting him to have a Heart probably free of what was binding him before.

Now, there is the off chance that Xemnas was 'being nice' to the lesser Nobodies who might not be able to really have the super intelligence needed to surrender, by having Roxas, Sora and others gather all those Hearts to the pseudo-Kingdom Hearts he made, but really..why wouldn't he just say so when he was there with Riku, Sora and King Mickey at the end? So I just don't see it that all the Nobodies that die return to whole. I think Axel was an exception because of how he died. Otherwise, Xemnas had the power all along to fix things and he didn't need Sora for it all or Roxas. To deal with him at the end, sure, but the whole point of gathering the Hearts like that was rather pointless, but to say get them all in one place and hope some of them belonged to the Nobodies there.

Of course, we still do not know much about the Heartless of the others, but it is said that only Xehanort's Heartless maintained sentience by Axel...of course other than Sora, though Sora himself commented that he was losing himself in Hollow Bastion, so it was obviously not going to be the same fate for him.

You pose an interesting question, and maybe we will get some more answers in 358/2 Days and also a bit more detail on some of the original 6 in BBS. I'm just really not sure if the scenario of Axel though applies to all of the Nobodies or not. I do ponder though that at the end when the droves of Nobodies fade away after Xemnas's defeat, if they didn't too surrender and go on as Axel did or not. That may be a possibility. I guess if we don't find out in 358/2 Days anything, KH3 is the next place to look, and even 'Coded', might have something since it is supposed to give info on the new boss.

 

I dont think Xemnas was building Kingdom Hearts to bring himself back to life. He himself said he was going to use Kingdom Hearts too build a new world.

So that was the objective of Kingdom Hearts. Also, I dont think Axel is a special case, the Other Org members talk as if they already knew he got a second life.

When Xigbar was talking about Axel dieing, Luxord said "Maybe he got something from putting his life on the line." He then discusses with Xigbar as to what happened to Axel.

Saix interupts them, saying "All he got was nothing, he was week."

Xemnas corrected Saix, "Some things awaken through weekness, you can see." He then hesitates, the camera focus in on him. (Possibly implying he was using himself as an example.) He then continues, "He touched Sora's heart, perhaps he awoke himelf as well."

I rarely ever understand when Xemnas talks... but it sounds like he was well aware of the fact that Axel lived. They were all discussing it.

Its seems as if Org XIII knew that thier deaths could have revived them all along. Perhaps Kingdom Hearts was just a front, to distract Sora of thier real goal.

 

One problem.

They send Axel to kill Roxas, to either

A. Retrieve him

or

B. Kill him.

Axel cannot do A so he goes to B. Now, why would that be a good move? The only reason to kill Roxas would be to stop Sora from being whole. But to kill Roxas, by your standards, would return him to Sora anyway. In that case, why did DiZ even capture him? Why not order Riku to annihilate Roxas?

Also, at the end, Roxas says to Namine "I always thought nobodies were doomed to fade into darkness..."
Then she replies "but we didn't! We found our others!" Why would they say this if all they had to do was stab themselves, and poof, back with somebody.

I would say that the thing with Axel was a one off.

 

I dont know. Nomura made up the theory... not me. But if Nomura makes it up... its cannon.

Also... they seemed to want Sora over Roxas as you and Repliku have pointed out in the past.

Since an idiot is easier to manipulate than a traitor. So if killing Roxas made Sora whole then so be it.

Also, if the heart is in a heartless when a nobody is defeated, they do return to darkness according to Nomura. Maybe Org XIII knew more than Namine. Shes a witch, not omnipotent.