Steubenville High School Football Players Found Guilty of Raping 16-Year-Old Girl

I'm not saying that what they did is right, because it wasn't. It was 100% wrong. However, I personally believe that the kid's apology was sincere and it took a lot of courage to be able to apologize.

• Source: Yahoo! News
• Published: 3/17/2013

 

This case really disgusted me.
Everyone was crying out that they shouldn't be sent to jail because 'they have a big academic future and will do great in their lives', and then a lot of news stations /barely/ mention the rape victim, and instead only focused on these goddamn football players because their 'lives are ruined'. And the victim? Traumatized for life, probably. The rapists? They're going to juvie for one year. They deserved a lot more.
They had a sincere apology? Oh great, that definitely makes it all better. The only reason they're sorry is because their life is ruined. They know what they did, and then they sent out pictures of their act to everyone. Yes, that's definitely something someone would do when they want to be sorry.

Times like these I really start questioning the American Judicial System.

 

As foreigners, I think the 'problems' of the American Law system are more apparent. Then again sports celebrity all over the world have the ability to do what they like and get away with, they can do no wrong.

However, for recent events in Britain at least, no matter how much of a foundation or public love celebrities have, they can be vilified. Jimmy Saville and those involved in the paedophilic acts in the BBC are being accounted for, at times it seems too late after his death to be of any use, but as a result of the opening of the cases, new investigations and crimes are being looked at and arrests being made. The law should not be above anyone, no matter how much money those people will make you or because they play sports well. Disgusting.

But on these wankers in particular, I can only say they'll be a target on their backs for decades to come after this. Vigilantism is very common in cases of rape and paedophilia, especially in a country where the public own guns. Beware boys. Beware.

 

I bet they're more sorry about throwing their careers out the window than they are about actually abusing the girl. I feel sorry for her, and the lack of attention she gets compared to the pricks that did this to her.

 

I dunno. I mean, I think it's very much possible for them to actually be sorry for abusing the girl. And there's nothing wrong with them being bummed about their careers, either. They can do both -- be bummed about their careers and be sorry for abusing the girl.

 

I have to agree with Amaury on this one. Obviously nobody should condone rape in any form, and what they did was undoubtedly wrong through-and-through, but it seems to me that more than an act of purposeful defilement of the girl, it was a huge mistake that they, a bunch of stupid rowdy kids, made and now understand, and will be feeling the repercussions of for the rest of their lives. While it's easy to say that they aren't getting what they deserve because they're not serving a long enough sentence, remember that being registered as a sexual offender means that your future is more or less gone. Keeping somebody in isolation for a year is very little compared to the sheer shattering realisation that you no longer have a future in which you were pretty much guaranteed before.

 

This is the snippet that made me say that. Of course, much has happened since then, so I hope you're right.

 

A lot of courage to be able to apologize...? Apologizing is the very least [the bare minimum] they could do. It's expected that they apologize. They don't deserve a pat on the back for apologizing. Treating people with respect should be the DEFAULT.

They're not going to win any pity points by apologizing.

 

I can honestly say, I have no pertaining feelings toward either party. Both the boys and the girl made the decision to abuse alcohol that night. If either of them, the victim or the perpetrators, should have chosen to stay home rather, this would more than likely not have taken place.

Of course I believe in just punishment, and the boys' sentencing is a little more lax than I would have thought it to be.

This is one of those odd cases in which I can feel sorry for the victim, and not sorry for the victim at the same time. I honestly have no emotions whatsoever to the two males. Apparently, drinking is a jock thing. They made their decision, and were, more or less, conscious of that decision.

 

Staying home instead of going out will keep you safe from a lot of things. It also makes you not worth talking to, because what interesting news could you possibly have to tell if you're not leaving the house? Outgoung behavior and alcohol aren't part of the problem here.

Here's the thing... The key factor isn't the presence of alcohol, but rather the lack of consent. A yes is a yes whether you're drunk or sober; you still made a conscious decision even if it is under the influence of behavior-altering substances (that you chose to down). Passing out (and thus keeping you from saying yes or no) is an accident: it is no longer part of the desired effect of alcohol. Yes, you chose to drink and yes, it's your fault that you don't know your limits. You should face every natural consequence that that comes with (passing out, blacking out, nausea, hangover) but anything that someone else does is beyond your control and therefore not your fault. You wouldn't molest a girl that's fallen asleep in the subway, even if her being tired is her own fault. I don't see why this should be any different when alcohol is involved.

Wrong on so many levels that I don't even know i can count 'em all. Drinking a jock thing? Seriously? You have no idea...

 

I'm sorry, the girl is passed out, and the guys' vision is so cloudy their self control is gone, but no that's not the problem here. That wasn't the problem at all. So basically this would've happened the exact same way with or without the alcohol, right? Let's not forget that they were all minors, who shouldn't have been drinking in the first place.

Yea, this girl definitely had no intention of getting that trashed that night. Must be why she drank enough to cause her to black out. I'd agree with you, in any other given situation, but if you're unconscious because of a decision you made (i.e. drinking) then it's your fault you're not awake to say no. If she had been drugged, or knocked unconscious I would feel differently, because it wouldn't have been her fault for falling into a state of unconscious.

Am I saying just because you see an unconscious girl you should do sexual things to her? No. But that's kind of going to happen when you have sixteen year old boys drinking. Honestly I couldn't care whether or not they spent the rest of their life in jail/prison. And yes, I felt bad for the girl. I'd feel bad for anyone who was raped. But my reason still stands, a multitude of bad decisions added up to that situation.

Sure, I have no idea. But I know enough to try and throw a little humor in my post to lighten the mood. Was it just that statement that caught you, or were you just looking for anything else to throw at me? When you've lived with alcoholics as long as I have, I think i'm a bit entitled to make a joke about it every now and then.

Sorry for voicing my opinions, didn't know I didn't have that right.

 

I'm going to address both of these quotes here because my reply to them would have been very similar anyhow.
The latter is a bold generalisation that makes no sense. I started drinking when I was 16. My cousin started when he was 14. Our friends started at similar ages (that's about 20 more people, give or take a few). Think we ever molested a girl? No, because we respect women. We've never been so far gone that our moral compass just vanished into thin air.
When I said that alcohol isn't the problem, then I meant that alcohol alone could never have caused this. I suspect that the actual cause is a deeper lying sense of superiority, a twisted mindset or at the very least a lack of respect.

I take back that it wasn't "part of" the problem. That little sentence fragment should really not have been there. You are right that this wouldn't have happened if they weren't as drunk as they were. So of course it is part of the problem, but it is not the main issue, and it shouldn't be zoomed in on at the expense of the problem's core. I'm sick and tired of booze being demonized more than it should be. Rather than saying "This wouldn't have happened if they stayed home/sober" it would be better to say "This wouldn't have happened if they respected women in the first place."... Hedonism is the culprit; alcohol was the weapon.

All of this being said, "staying at home" is still a ridiculous suggestion.

Word of advice: do not use sarcasm when you're twisting someone else's words. When they see through it (like me), then you fall flat on your face twice over (like you).
Yes, the girl had every intention of getting drunk, but no one deliberately passes out. It is a side effect of not knowing your limits, probably because they are minors or at least not experienced drinkers.

By the time I was 19, I knew which cues told me I had enough whenever I was out getting drunk. I too had crossed the line before, but this was hardly ever more troublesome than giving an occasional tactless sneer and being overly stubborn in drunk debates on whether tomatoes are fruits or vegetables. Indeed, the behavioral effects of crossing that proverbial line vary greatly. This has further led me to believe that alcohol cannot be blamed for all the wrongs you do when you are drunk, driving my previous point home.

This is where the sleeping subway girl analogy comes in, which you conveniently ignored. I'll spell it out for you because I'm such a nice person.
When you see a girl fast asleep on the subway, she isn't awake to say no either. It is very plausible to assume that this is her own fault due to not going to bed on time or whatever. When you'd cop a feel on such a girl, you're a sick perv. Do the same thing to a drunk girl, and she gets part of the blame. That is hypocritical.

This is related to what I said above. There is a world of difference between making a bad decision and being at fault. If I find it funny to flip off Hell's Angels passing by and they wreck my car and face for it, then I have done something incredibly stupid, but I was not at fault for the resulting violence. I'm sure that kids half your age get this, so I wonder why I even have to explain.

When I quote a post, I might as well address everything I disagree with. Whether it was meant to be serious or not is often lost to me because I've read some pretty stupid things in my life and your joke simply wasn't funny.

If you can't take any headwind against your opinion, then maybe you should indeed refrain from giving it.

 

So I take you either didn't read the part about the one boy having "family issues" or you just overlooked it. If you're trying to find a justification for what he did, then there you go. Have fun with it.

Staying home instead of going out to get drunk at a party, yes, a terribly ridiculous suggestion.

Yes, and we all know that inexperience is the coverall excuse. I'm sure they knew enough.

I'll just skip the sarcasm. You do realize that not everyone is affected in the same way by alcohol, right? Each person is going to react differently depending on a number of factors. Or are you saying that everyone is the same as you?

I'm sorry, I ignored it?

Yes, looks like I ignored it entirely. I might have pushed it to the side a little, but that's only because your scenario has nothing to do with alcohol, which I've clearly been basing everything off of. So yea, i'm gonna dodge a question that has nothing to do with the conversation i'm trying to have.

You know what, you're absolutely one hundred percent right. Aren't you always right? Because every single person has the same mindset, right? Wrong. I think i'm allowed to believe that no matter the decision, how small it may be, there's always going to be a certain amount of fault that lies with you. I don't believe in that, "Oh, he didn't mean it, so let's just drop the whole thing" crap. I'm sure you can come up with some witty retort about a child who doesn't know what they're doing, that's what parents are for. Basically, the sin of the son is the sin of the father.

I'm sorry, did I hurt your feelings? I could go on and on about how I wasn't trying to "please" your sense of humor, but I won't. Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean that no one else will like it either. So what, you found my little joke distasteful. I don't seem to recall comedy needing to be politically correct.

I'm absolutely fine having my opinions fought, it's just somehow you managed to work your way under my skin. I figured I should apologize to the "almighty" Styx.

 

I learned about this story a few days ago. First thing I have to say is that I have no sympathy for those kids whatsoever. So they apologized? Big fricken' deal. They can apologize all they want, but it doesn't change the fact that they raped the girl. And what's even worse is that everyone kept going on about "They're future is now gone" or "The girl is to blame for everything that's happened to them now". That is a complete load. And the fact that the dad said "I love you" to the kid when he apologized, after never saying he loved him before? I'm not the only one that thinks it sounds like he's praising his kid for what he did. Those kids should have known better before they even did this. If they end up in jail and are labeled for the rest of their lives and they don't like that, they should have though about it before they did it in the first place. The most annoying part is that they don't ever mention the girl's name and all of their attention is on the boys.

 

Did you really fail every comprehensive reading test in grade school ever? Not once have I even implied that their actions are justifiable. I only present another probable cause for those actions than the one you so blindly blame.

I honestly can't think of a person who would rather talk to a wallflower than to someone who actually bothers to get to know people.

"I"m sure they...", I'm sorry, were you there? If we're gonna make assumptions here, I might as well join in. I'm going to assume that you are not a regular or even a casual user of alcohol. In fact, I suspect you've never been drunk in your life. That is commendable, but that does mean that you don't know what the hell you're talking about when discussing drinking experience. For further reflections on mistakes due to lack of experience, see below.

Actually...

This is the exact sentence in which I acknowledge that no, not everyone responds to alcohol like I do. Seriously, do you just read what you want to read?
Also, there was no sarcasm in that part of my post. For someone dead set on using sarcasm, you know awfully little about it.

If my analogy is unsatisfactory or invalid as an argument, you might as well give reasons why rather than "pushing it to the side", otherwise I will treat it as valid until schooled otherwise. That's only natural.

I was afraid you might give me the "Opinions can be different" argument. Ten to one that this never gets resolved then. I like giving people some credit and leave some space for people to err. They aren't machines after all, nor are they perfect, especially without prior experience. It just so happens that some of those innocent mistakes come with grave consequences. I'd write more about why your opinion comes off as spiteful and bitter and mine as holy enough to make a halo appear above my head, but I don't have the time. I have to go to help out at a bar and get people drunk, funnily enough.

I didn't say distasteful or offensive, I said "not funny". Until further notice, they aren't the same.

 

...family issues is justification for rape?

Not ridiculous, just less fun. I'm not saying that she was smart about it, but if you were given two choices to spend your night and one was more fun than the other, would you still pick the less fun one? If you think it's safer and less risky, possibly, but I'm sure this girl didn't think, "I'm going to drink past my limit and get raped if I go out so I may as well stay home."

Erm, I doubt this girl has been drinking for years like most other people (Styx and I for once), just like the rest of these kids. Her not knowing her limit is very plausible. Most people don't know their limit until they hit it. Drinking isn't a "hit my limit every time" kind of thing. I'm sure she didn't know. Also, as Styx was saying, she could have easily simply accepted the natural consequences of drinking: passing out, vomiting, doing something stupid, waking up somewhere else, etc. Hell, she probably would have been fine with sex IF SHE WAS EVEN SEMI-CONSCIOUS (though that opens up the "drunk yes = yes?" argument and we're currently arguing "no yes = yes"). But getting gangbanged ON VIDEO while you can barely move is not a natural consequence of drinking.

Styx did mention that. Regardless, raping someone or getting raped isn't a natural reaction to drinking.

It doesn't have to do with alcohol, it's an analogy. If you'll rape a girl who is too drunk to say yes and is practically unconscious because she chose to drink, would you rape a girl who is too tired to say yes and practically asleep because she chose to stay up late?

 

Yes, because i'm blindly blaming alcohol when it so clearly wasn't a factor. Why do you find you have to insult my reading capabilities? Actually, English was one of my best subjects. I'm sorry I assumed that since you didn't want to believe alcohol was the main factor, you were looking for some sort of justification. Something that would lead up to that situation. Honestly, alcohol is the only thing i'm going to look at here. Any other reasons like a "superiority" complex should be thrown out the window, in my opinion, when under the influence of alcohol. Since alcohol has a tendency to amplify emotions.

So, your saying that every kid should be going out and getting drunk, or do you keep overlooking that part? If it was just going out to "hang" with friends, or go to a movie then I wouldn't see any harm. But since it's so obvious that going and getting drunk is something every child should be doing, I guess i'm also wrong here.

I'm sorry, did I say I've never gotten drunk before? I'm just smart enough to know when to f***ing stop. I've been drinking for years, you think I've ever once f***ed up and done something this stupid? No. Since we're on the topic of making bad assumptions, you seem to think I don't know a thing about anything I've said. Guess that makes us both an ass.

Just to clarify, I meant that I would skip the sarcasm, but I guess you wouldn't know that. No, I read it all. It's just, I found something odd. You acknowledged that not everyone is affected the same way, in part of your post, yet in another you sound like that isn't true. Sorry, but a lot of what you're saying sounds like you're bouncing back and forth to me, at least.

Fine, you want a damn reason? You think a girl who happens to be sleeping on the subway and starts to get sexually assaulted isn't going to wake up? There's a difference between this and that. The girl here, didn't wake up because she was in a state of unconscious brought on by the effect of alcohol. Now, something would have to seriously be wrong if the girl on the train wouldn't wake up. So either these are two completely different situations, or there's a part of your analogy you must have been leaving out.

You know, I might have to take some lessons from you about funny. That halo line, that's classic. You know, I don't believe I have ever heard about an angel sanctifying the misuse of alcohol by minors as much as you have. And before you try to fight that statement, i'd like to refer back to how many times you've dodged my statement about how kids shouldn't be going out and getting drunk. Apparently, it's the only acceptable thing to do nowadays. Oh and fyi, that was sarcasm.

Obviously that's a no. I was simply giving Styx an example, as it appeared he was looking for a justification. Rather than believing that alcohol was a big part of the problem.

I honestly and truly believe this poor girl had no intention of being raped that night, and I feel terrbile for her. However, it was her choice to go out and drink that night. Had someone been twisting her arm, or forcing the alcohol down her throat I would feel differently. Honestly, drinking isn't fun at all. I hate drinking with a passion. I've lived around drunks my whole life. Never got to see my mother come home at night when I was a kid, and she not be drunk. And yet still I find that drinking is the only thing that gives me those few minutes of euphoria to help me escape reality. Ironic how life works out. Now, hanging out with friends is a different story. As I've stated to Styx above, if the girl was just going out with her friends to see a movie or just generally hang out, do you still believe this would've happened? In the end though, kids will be kids. You can't stop them from going out and drinking like this, it's a part of life. But I can't believe for one minute that I wouldn't blame a child for doing something wrong, just because they wanted to "try" it. If you're old enough, even if it's not legally, to go out and get drunk, you're old enough to deal with the responsibilities.

You've just reminded me of something else. If all these people were recording this, why'd none of them stop it? Actually, had it been up to me, every kid who was there drinking that night would be doing jail time for not stopping the crime. Kids these days make me sick. They'd rather pull out their phone and record a video of someone being shot, rather than try and help them. Yes, this may be an inaccurate statement for a lot of today's generation, but for the most part, I hate children.

On to the part about knowing your limit. I'll give in and agree that this girl may not have known her limit. Knowing your limit or not, that base decision to ingest alcohol belonged to her. As I've said above, if you can go out and drink, you can deal with the consequences.

Another thing before I move on, where were her "friends"? This is a follow up to my first reply on this quote. If she was really there with her "friends" then why'd not one of them try to help her? Or at the very least, watch over her so this wouldn't have happened to begin with. Don't know if it's different where I come from, but when I get trashed, my friends watch my back.

I'll agree, there might have, or more than likely were, some additional factors. However, stop and answer me this. Do you honestly think that if alcohol hadn't been involved, this still would've happened? It might have built up over time and happened later on down the road, but in this instance specifically? Alcohol amplifies emotions and feelings you may be holding inside. If it was there to begin with, the alcohol didn't help at all. That's all i'm trying to say on that matter.

 

I don't usually come in this section, but this case absolutely disgusted me. I have no sympathy for anyone who commits harassment of any sort, and being sixteen doesn't excuse the two idiots for doing something like this. Yea, sure, we all do stupid sh*t when we're teenagers, but I sure as f*ck wasn't that stupid when I was sixteen.

And the worst part is, this isn't exactly an unusual thing in that area. I have an acquaintance who used to live around there, and apparently (according to her, anyway) rape and racism are rampant. It's just this case got attention.
Not that the attention was all that great, either. The news reports keep going on and on about how 'oh, they're lives are ruined'. Well, guess what, they friggin deserve it, and more. I honestly think they should be behind bars until they're 21, to teach them and anyone who even thinks about doing anything similar a lesson.

It makes me laugh when people say women are treated equivalently to men, when sh*t like this still happens on a regular basis.

 

That'd only be a couple years. If they honestly wanted to make an example out of them, they'd give them a lot longer than that. And I agree about the news. Who the hell should care about their lives. As I've stated before, it wouldn't bother me to see them locked away for life. Maybe if the increased the laws and penalties for such things, we might see a drop in the rate of occurrence. Then again, it is America. We don't like punishing our "superstars."

 

Sadly, I believe, since they're technically juveniles, they can legally only be put away until they're 21, after which they would be considered adults by the legal system and would be ineligible to be put back in jail for the same crime. I would love to see any and all rapists and harassers put away for life, but the judicial system just doesn't work like that, not to mention that America just doesn't have the resources to keep that many people for life.