!?Sci-fi/Christianity?! What is god

Alright, let me explain a little bit from were I'm coming from before I jump right into what this thread is all about.
I am a deist, I see organized religion as almost Satanic, because of its dogmacy and desire for utter control over people's minds. I see modern religion as a big part of this, and there maybe people within religion to JUST MESS THINGS UP AND SCARE PEOPLE AWAY FROM GOD. I see ancient religions in a more positive light. It seems to me that Christianity is a compilation of many ancient religions into one. But through the Roman Empire, it has been twisted and corrupted into what you see today. So there will be parts were I might seem really against Jesus, but I am also in the open-minded belief that Jesus could be a really good guy, and very full of truth and justice, but his "story" has been twisted and manipulated over the years.

Now, as for what this thread is truly about...I've read the Bible almost 5 times (seriously, all the way through). I have a hard time seeing the god talked about in the Old Testament as a "spirit". There are so many parts were they make god seem like a sinner almost, more human than god, and I think that the god in much of the Bible is really aliens. But I truly do believe in a spiritual god, Like I believe in a combination of karma, reincarnation, and the Fall of the Angels as for belief in a afterlife.

 

lol evil space jesus.


whats the question or statement we are debating over?

 

what ARE we debating about? i see background info but nothing to debate about

 

most people would consider your views kinda silly

but honestly i can't really say they're completely invalid

 

Really? So... human sacrifice (Native American, early Egyptian, early Mesopotamian, Baal), animal sacrifice (every ancient religion, Judaism), rituals honoring inanimate objects (the Sun, the Moon, nature spirits), etc etc, are better to you than Christianity? I admit, Christians as a whole can be violent, destructive, and intolerant, but if the ancient religions still existed, they would be much worse.

Christianity has some very high, good moments and some extremely low, base ones. For instance, my nation (the USA) was founded by people who, if nothing else, claimed to believe in the Christian god. However, the Crusades wiped out most of Jerusalem and large portions of Constantinople. However, remember the constant warring that occurred in ancient times? Religiously based.

In North America, the fighting was less bloody, but still religious. Someone would have a dream of where he could find some good stuff to raid (horses, etc), organize a war party, and take it. In Central and South America, nations there would raid villages and towns to obtain captives to be sacrificed. One sacrifice ritual alone killed over 70,000 captives in a week. Slave raids occurred frequently with the ancient Egyptians. The Greeks and Romans believed that heir gods made them better than all other people. There are countless other examples, but I do not know enough about them to talk about them.

 

We are debating over my somewhat theory. Do you think its "plausible"? Or do you think its crap-o-la. I'd like to hear some of your thoughts.

@childofturin: Yes, I've tried to say that I hate all organized religion, because of much of their hypocrosy. But some of these ancient religions didn't use animal or human sacrifice. Such as Zoroastrianism. And maybe some of the people who believed in the religion didn't agree with the sacrifices. But they were forced to take part in the worship were there was sacrifice. We can't really know for sure. And heres a good point, History is written by the victors. If Christianity found out about these ancient religions, and didn't want them to interfere with their own, then through out history they probably killed these ancient peoples(and their cultures), and called them pagan, saying things like they would sacrifice humans and animals and stuff, but maybe they really didn't. Christianity could've twisted the religion, making it seem evil, or "pagan", but really it was good. It wouldnt've be the first time Christianity did something hypocritical and down right evil.

But lets say they really did sacrifice humans. It would actually go along with my theory. Now, we all know that these ancient people weren't dumb. They built pyramids, great bridges, lots of really fastinating things that are still around today. These things were made to last.
The Egyptians knew a lot about early medicine to.
So my point is this, why would these intelligent ancient people do something as barbaric and stupid as to sacrifice humans? I mean really, they couldnt've been that dumb. They built things that not even we fully understand how to build, and you'd think they'd do somthing as stupid as that for some god? I know there are religious radicals out there, but no one would ever do that as a people/civilization without a true purpose.
Its these real gods, Annunaki, a reptialian race of aliens that much of ancient civilizations claim to be their creators wanted to say, eat humans, then why go hunt them when you can have them served as a sacrifice on a platter?
AND BE LOVED FOR IT. Its evil, down right evil. Anyways, I'd like to hear so comments...

Heres a video on my theory. Its pretty insightful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3oH92AZTPo

 

Many religions, including Christianity had sacrifices and such in the older times. Today, we still have lingering martyrs in monotheistic religion, so the encouragement to do something for a deity that is of great sacrifice still is around, though most people frown on it. There are also cases of murders that happen because some zealots believe their children being gay or something against their religion is bad enough to merit death.

Ever since I was thirteen, I've not liked organized religions really of any kind, though I do understand them and have studied them quite exclusively. Organized religions to me seem to be a tool used to control society, set structure and also grant some people power and authority over others they consider weaker. Kings of various kinds have even used it as a means of holding power and those lords who went against religion or adapted new religions suffered for it with death or were made into icons for the deed. We can learn a lot about any culture through examining religion, amongst other things, both in present and in the past.

As for why would many ancient religions believe in sacrificing of life, it's not that they were stupid. The older cultures were explorers studying life and death, medicines, war, famine, disease, etc. However, they also had, in some areas, little to go off of. They were ignorant; not stupid. We're still ignorant and do what we can with what we have, though more advanced now. They didn't know what to do with some extreme situations. The gods of older times, to include monotheistic figures in Judaism, Islam and Christianity, but also others such as Norse, Celtic, Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Mayan, Hindu, Aztec, Babylonian, Mesopotamian etc, were deities that were involved in human lives. People believed these gods were influential and could punish them for wrong doings and that some even warred against each other, forcing humans to take sides or be punished for it. If you blame a famine on a god who has a bad temper, how do you quell that god's rage so you can again eat and grow produce? A sacrifice to the god may seem pretty logical at that point since you want to appease the deity and hope for the best. If nothing is done, you can hope another deity will come in and save you but sometimes with the older religions, it was felt necessary that humans do at least something to cater to the whims of the gods, rather than just being mere followers. That's where we get our old mythological heroes from. They stood against the adversity of 'bad' deities or other figures such as the fae and dragons etc.

As for the other part of your debate issue, that Yahweh in the First Testament is hard to see as a 'spirit' sort of being, well that is a personal thought and hard to debate. To me, some of the ancient religious deities were much more like 'people' than Yahweh was. Jesus, who's life mirrors Horus as well as some other deities, seemed to bring about that personal connection and human connection to Yahweh that was lacking formerly. Before Jesus, the manifestations of God were through other people such as Moses calling on his power, or through people being told to do deeds such as Noah building the ark, or through some sort of show of power and voice such as the burning bush. There were trials of loyalty such as with Job. However, you never really in the Old Testament, -see- Yahweh. Instead you hear his voice, see his power either by his own acts of turning up nature as was done with the Egyptians, or he used individuals to have the power work through. Hope this is even making sense. xD

So, to me, Yahweh was more like Brahma in that people could see it as a being connected to life and death but its so grand it won't be seen in flesh and blood. That would make it more of a 'spirit' to me than the other deities of the time who even if some had extraordinary appearances, still allegedly showed themselves to humanity. The pantheon deities of older times were more human and tangible with actual human issues as well such as having extra-marital affairs, cheating, lying, stealing, loving, hating, had romance, loved to have combat, etc. They matched in a way more up to how humans of the times felt. Some were very benevolent and loving. Others were cruel and sadistic. Some were warriors while others were healers, etc. They embodied what the cultures felt were aspects of humanity itself, as well as what was important to humans to survive.

Yahweh did have some human qualities such as jealousy, anger, a desire to kill the infidels, to protect his people, etc, but at the same time, he was always considered to be well above everything and not so tangible. Jesus as well as some other beings of notable importance such as Mohammad, Abraham, David, Moses etc, were figures that brought God to be more understood. Jesus being his son and yet also an aspect of Yahweh, showed a gentler side of the god since times were changing and made the religion obviously in some ways more appealing. Mohammad was obviously as instrumental for Islam, and both religions now are the two major ones of the world, whereas before, they were not as major influences.

I can't say I believe in any religion, but I do find them intriguing to study. I've seen some weird things but either they can be explained by science or I figure the answer someday will come to be revealed. As for aliens assuming roles of either Yahweh or any other deity, I leave that alone since well, I haven't ever seen a bonified alien yet. We humans have an incredible gift for imagination, so right now I am under the impression that people, to express phenomenon they did not understand and also to control masses of people in some fashion, made up a lot of things.

 

Intreeging (spelled it wrong, I know). You do seem to know a lot about this stuff, really Repliku. And I respect that a lot. I see things the way you do, but you have more say taken the Athiest option in destiny, were as I have taken a more spiritual/belief in god type of path once I learned of much of the knowledge you've just explained. But I have a conspiritorial father, and he has opened my eyes to see some really horrifying but interesting possibities for the future concerning such things as the stars, aleins, and religion/polotics. So it seems you know much of what I know, execpt I come from the conspiritorial and spiritual perspective, rather than your view of there being no god at all, and that everything was "made up" by primitive man.

The most interesting thing was what you said right here:

These type of statements I like, because I think much of the god that we seek, WE SEEK. We pray to him, we worship him, and ask him for forgiveness. But whenever in history you hear god reply back, I believe that "that" "god" is really a type of "alien". Imagine, imagine if they could cure anything, destroy planets by pressing a button, create new life forms with advanced technology and science. Wouldn't that be an equivalent to what we know as "god"? Personally, I believe so.

 

God in the bible is also a representative henotheistic religion, not monotheistic. The bible sort of admits that. >:

 

In the end, I suppose any deity not born or evolved on earth would be an alien. In a way, that would be the other reason why I wouldn't consider 'worship' that important to any deity anyway. The concept of worshiping some being that's just an alien, albeit a super powerful one, seems silly to me. Also, as said somewhere else... if God did exist, he'd have a lot of esplainin' to do.

 

I find it odd that any time science comes even close to disproving an event that the Bible describes, Christians are all too eager to yell "but you shouldn't take the Bible too seriously, a lot of its stories are in fact metaphors!". But somehow, the idea that God itself could be a metaphor has never occured to many of those Christians and is supported by even less of them.

Religion is a lifestyle, and the personification encompassing that lifestyle may be God. But for reasons that are beyond me (and them) some people feel the need to believe that there actually is such a being. But what could be the reason to still believe in its existence while accepting many of the non-events of the Bible as an exaggerated metaphor?

It makes no difference to me though. I don't believe in any god as a creature, nor do I have any faith in the perspectives they could stand for.

 

I agree with you completely. Thats why I am in most ways against organized religion, because it could merely be another way for them to have complete control over humanity. By controling were there minds and hearts are set. That and obvious religious hypocrosy that many of you already know of...so it goes with out saying.

I agree with you here. Accept, I don't believe God is a metaphor. Most Christians are really stupid, and only know what their priest or pastor preaches to them. So they're very hypocritical. They think they are so bound by faith to their belief that they can even stand up to death, but all men are corruptable, and because they are in the belief that they are so bound, they are even more corruptable through the use of their so called belief than the average man. Thats what I think anyway, thats what I've seen.

 

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".

I suppose if these aliens visited earth at a time when technology was very basic then it would make them seem "god-like" when really they are just very advanced. It all depends on your definition of the word god; if you mean an extremely powerful being then yes it could possibly be aliens. If you mean a super natural being then no. Super natural means outside the laws of the universe which is just illogical.

 

exactly. And these primitive men in the sense that their definition of god wasn't determined yet, saw these beings as "supernatural" and "almighty", because they created everything around them.
But what I believe is that these beings of course don't deserve praise as gods in any sort, BUT(!) there is a god of a spirit realm that exists, and had created this realm (the materiaL REALM) as a punishment for the evil souls that turned against him.
(In this statement, yes, I AM saying that the Legends of the Fall of the Angels is the basic over story of the origin of the realms. Lucifer fell, and brought a third of the souls of the spirit realm, "heaven" if you will, to the material realm ("hell"). And thus we are here, in Punishment...)