Mass marketing and the warriors spirit

Discussion in 'Discussion' started by Jiku Neon, Jun 8, 2008.

  1. Jiku Neon Kingdom Keeper

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    I'm sure some of you have seen this kind of scenario before. You're driving in a car or walking down a street and you pass by a big electrically lit sign advertising a karate studio with different kinds of after school tutoring, homework help and child daycare programs listed on the window. You may think to yourself what are these people doing? In this day and age it has become more and more useless to need combat skills to defend oneself. Crime is different and society is different. So what becomes of the arts that had been passed down to facilitate the defense of the weak or small against the large and possibly inebriated? They get watered down and sold. Yes, martial arts are a business, the majority of which are similar to the above described. They avoid violence and actually teaching fighting altogether and try to make a buck off of peoples ignorance and sheltered existences. There is a saying among instructors, I'm not sure if you've heard, it goes something like this, "A good student is one that pays." For many this is the truth, it can be seen all over the suburbs of eastern America, little children run about wearing black belts and young teenagers run about with an absurd sense of confidence that they know something that will protect them from harm. The phrase "I know karate" no longer has weight, you may as well be a regular middle class kid with no training at all. The military has embraced the useful and discarded the refuse, but the public seems contented to let their children take a class for what was once a fighting form as a form of aerobic exercise. Even more absurd examples include a school of so called Xtreme Martial Arts which is more similar to gymnastics than it is to karate and still claim that they are able to fight. This phenomenon is in my experience most observed in America, where there is no need to fight and the money flows freely. It seems like the times have called for a death to the warriors spirit and practical fighting in the public.

    What do you think? Is America killing the martial arts? Should they die?
     
  2. Repliku Chaser

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    As I am kind of a martial artist, I would say that in some cases you right but in others you are wrong. Also, people do need to defend themselves still, and I have no idea where you are saying otherwise. Rape, aggravated assault, assaults, murders etc are alive in the U.S. and in other places. Some people are violent and that's how it goes in any country. We also aren't rolling in the dough and some of the classes are plain ridiculous for prices but with all the hype surrounding some martial arts groups, some people may feel it's worth it to dish out 100 bucks a month. I actually took Shuai Jiao for free since my Shaolin teacher and a couple students recommended it to me so not all teachers are out for money. Also, when I had hard times paying for Shaolin, the teacher would let it slide and let me catch up. So really, it depends where you go.

    I have taken various martial arts to try them out such as Karate, Aikido, Shaolin Long Fist, Shuai jiao, Ju Jitsu, Tae Kwon Do and touched on some others not worth mentioning. Mostly I've seen Tae Kwon Do and Karate (though not all Karate schools) take up a sort of thing where they instill in their students a bravado that is more arrogance than self-confidence. I've been in competitions where they will actually let Shaolin, Shuai Jiao students to participate, because most won't. Any time we go to compete my class always won against all other groups of classes, taking the most rewards home for style and also for full contact competitiveness. This isn't to now brag or anything but to point out that often we -can't- compete and neither can some other people such as who take ju jitsu but amongst ourselves.

    When I went to the army, I learned some martial arts techniques as well, but they weren't so much different than Shaolin and Ju Jitsu. At least the way I had been studying. We don't 'shout' and try to intimidate people as it ends up wasting energy, but in Karate and Tae Kwon Do it is trained as a common thing because though it wastes energy, it also can give you more force behind your punch or kick and it is also meant to scare the opponent and show the foe you aren't just going to give up and let them do whatever to you.

    You are right that there are very 'fake' classes of martial arts with a lot of junk that doesn't work and yet boasts arrogance. You can see people who brag that they are so great and black belts and yet some of them are likely to get beaten up by the local guy at a bar who kicks ass with street brawling and a pool stick because they don't know when to back down. However, in my experience of doing martial arts for years, the best advice if you are interested in them is to shop around. You can learn some amazing things and it is a great way to stay fit and yet not have to do the same old exercises such as in aerobics. The right class will teach harmony, respect to others and that in a fight this person is -still- a person, and also self-esteem. Also, it will tell you how to get away from attackers and how to figure out when you are just 'out-gunned' and keep your cool in scenarios that aren't positive. This is important because a person should know when he/she is in over his/her head. There are ways to tell if a class is worth it or not. Some things people can watch for are the following:

    1. If the class is advertised by a lot of posters, fancy signs and all commercial stuff. It's razzle dazzle and so is the class probably.
    2. If you see when you attend a class that people walk around very machismo, pompous and act all rough and tough instead of having more amiable, calm personalities. The machismo personality almost tries in a way to imitate the Army in a bad way with how hyped up especially the males are.
    3. If the sensai himself/herself acts all 'hooyah' and more like a drill sergeant than what you'd expect from a martial artist. Also, if the students don't have a range in age and are mostly teenagers and young adults. If there are other people in the class that are older or have disabilities it shows the teacher's skill to help work with any age group and take into account any 'weaknesses'.

    Things in the positive to notice:
    1. The teacher is amiable and not a 'proud' person full of boasting of all his/her accomplishments, but will tell you straight out what to expect and what you need to do. You shouldn't feel harassed attending the classes. Also, the students have a relaxed air about them and are there to learn but don't act like their crap doesn't stink. There is a respect to each member, no matter how new or old the person is.
    2. People such as students of the teacher recommend him/her rather than by noticing it from all the public advertisements.
    3. Where the classes are held. If the building is not all decorated with movie posters of martial arts movies and such, it may be a pretty good place.
     
  3. Jiku Neon Kingdom Keeper

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    I was certainly exaggerating my point, and I do not mean to insult people who have come across the "good stuff". However, you remain in the stark minority. Also, I did take issue with your comment that people need to defend themselves and proceeded to list rape and other violent crimes, not because you are in any way incorrect so much as you are overlooking the mentality. People in America know that this kind of thing happens but often think "that kind of thing happens to others". So the situation may not be different but the mentality is. I agree with you for the most part and respect your opinions. I try not to talk out of my knowledge and don't know what other countries or some of the other parts of the U.S. happen to be like.
     
  4. Repliku Chaser

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    I do hear your point that there are wrong classses of martial arts out there but most are just over exaggerated hype. There are some good classes out there but people have to find others who know and it's mostly by word of mouth from experienced people to find the good stuff. Hence, that's why I said it's best to shop around if someone is serious on learning some defense techniques and not just boosting their egos and paying out the ass for it.

    Also, there are quite a few people who have been through violent crimes so I don't think it's just a small amount of people. Inner city life can be rather harsh. I know that most of the time, martial arts, as far as is physically concerned, I haven't really had to employ that much and most of the time if I have it's been only to mediate a situation and calm people down who were getting violent or just to stand in the way of some bad situation. Normally, I've found that just getting people to stop and being calm worked out, which I can also attribute to martial arts training but also commonsense. If a class isn't teaching someone to be calm in the face of adversity and use commonsense instead of using just physical skill, it's not a good class.

    Some areas are just worse than others for violence but yes, I do agree many martial arts classes are not what they are intended to be when people sign up. Though, I have to say if I had kids I'd probably have them learn it as I did but I'd also know where to send them because I went through a lot finding what classes were good and what were just all hype.
     
  5. Inasuma "pumpkin"

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    I will agree that some individuals simply just want a business out of it. I've been to a few dojo's like that, actually.

    Since I have been in karate for over 2 years now, and am only a green/blue belt (I was actually going to a belt test this week anyway), I will say that where I am currently attending is a very good dojo. Very old style of karate (goju shorei ryu). Institutions like Xtreme Martial Arts, though, really do appall me. I wish people put some soul into their arts. =/

    Do I think that America is destroying karate/martial arts? Yes. But I do think that there will always be true masters of the art. I mean, obviously Japan isn't going to stop with its martial arts program, I mean, they used it the most out of any of us! lol
     
  6. Peace and War Bianca, you minx!

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    It is true what you say, the western world has turned martial arts, a form of discipline and defense into a business and an entertainment form.
    And i'm guessing by the 'not needing to defend yourself with martial arts' bit meant that if you came across a guy in an alley and he knew karate and was trying to mug you, you'd think 'yeah, i've got a chance cause I know karate', but now-a-days you'd be more likely to get mugged by a guy with a gun and martial arts can't do much with karate when the guy is firing bullets at you.
    And true enough, the warrior and fighters spirit has died, main reason i think is the relience on guns, a long range weapon that doesn't need much training except to aim and fire compared to the more complex and understanding of martial arts, even where martial arts thrives in the world, masters will never teach their student everything, why? So the student may never be stronger than the master. It's a reason why the art is dying and the entertainment of guys fly kicking is more 'entertaining'.
    And really, any art form should never die, from Claude Monet's Impressionist brush strokes, to Aborigines tribal instruments, and the martial arts is no exception. I would say we need it more in today's world than ever, when no one cares for their country, undicsplined people kill on the streets and we have shows that always only entertain and rarely educate.
     
  7. Fallout Gummi Ship Junkie

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    Most Americans fight by 'fist fight' or 'boxing'.

    Honestly, if you know how to box there is no need for karate. If you join the marines, however, they will teach you martial arts or 'hand-to-hand' combat.
     
  8. Jiku Neon Kingdom Keeper

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    Boxing is a martial art in my opinion though it is less refined it is effective. However there aren't as many places to train in boxing and it is still kept in a mostly pure and simple fighting form no *******ization as it is in the Asian arts. Besides most Americans no nothing about real boxing and what they do is just plain bar fight brawling.
     
  9. P Banned

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    To be honest, I am not fussed on the concept of martial arts to defend yourself.

    In cases where martial arts could help, (Bar brawls, playground fights, etc.) you would be better off using dicipline to defuse the tension, and avoid conflict.

    In the case where the attacker is serious, they will have a weapon that you will not be able to fight against.

    When you do defend yourself, you often end up in trouble. A while back, a young man tried to rob some senoir citizens. One of them was a martial SAS artist. He ended up killing their attacker.

    While I have nothing against it as a sport, I think that as self defense, better skills could be used.