Square-Enix Is Final Fantasy falling apart?

This DOES NOT include remakes. Please don't add them, it mostly involves the most recent games though it can go back as far as you like. Hell, I know someone who thought it fell apart after II.

Anyway, after watching a review on FFXIII, I was wondering to everyone: Do you think the Final Fantasy series is falling apart/becoming less popular/not as good as it used to be? Why?

I was a huge fan of Final Fantasy, I loved VI through X and sometimes even play the older games also. I stopped playing after trying XII and getting halfway through it. The fact that you don't earn money via monsters and you had to pay for everything to get any kind of upgrade drove me off it. I was thinking about getting XIII until I saw the reviews. I think it doesn't have the life it used to have. It used to be so expansive and had so much depth to each character. Terra is still one of my favorite characters of all time, just how much she goes through and how much she questions herself and humanity is painful to watch. The worlds were huge and expansive, allowing you to explore every nook and cranny if you wanted to and gave a sense of adventure.

Note, I do love Final Fantasy X, but even then it became so linear. From leveling up to exploration. It was a set path through most of the game, and when it became exploring, you could only go to certain places and explore within that area. And steadily over time it got more and more linear.

The characters just seemed to become less and less appealing. Tidus just seemed more annoying than anything else. Note: My favorite character was Auron, maybe Yuna as a female character at a stretch. Auron was the only one who had an air of mystery and depth that lasted the whole game. The rest of characters seemed shallow and never really drawn out to their full potential.

 

I'm not very knowledgeable about FF aside from what KH and playing some of a couple games has taught me, but from what I can tell it does seem to be in a decline. However this is not necessarily a bad thing. Everything peaks, eventually you're going to hit that perfect note, and everything after will seem worse by comparison. This was obviously the PS1 era for FF. Now, that's not to say that none of the games that have come out since then have been good, and I'm certainly not trying to step on anyone's toes and say that these PS1 games are better than anything else. I'm just saying that during this time FF was at its height in terms of popularity and whatever else. SE is losing popularity, so of course their games are going to suffer from that as well, FF included, still, that's not to say that FF is now unpopular or anything. It's still an absolutely massively popular franchise.

 

I don't think it's falling apart, I think people just dislike change in formula (I get that XIII is linear as ****, I don't like that part either).

To me, I didn't play FF at all until I was like 10, and I like the classics and the new ones over VII and VIII. Why? Well, VII causes too many fan wars, and VIII was just... Too different for me. IX was a homage to the old FF Games, so I enjoyed it.

Point is, the fans are probably the ones falling apart, not the games.

 

I don't think the series is falling apart in terms of 'being what it used to be'. Each entry has always and will always have its detractors. XIII got the short end of the stick not because its a bad game, but because it had the responsibility of being the face of Final Fantasy this gen alone. With so many hopes placed on it, and the staggering difficulty of next-gen development (ten years ago) it got hit hard.

Not to mention that Square retreated to mobiles. A move that only helped to worsen things. Don't get me wrong, it has its flaws. They're just hyperbolic.

JPRG's fell harshly out of the spotlight because of Multiplayer affairs, Casual and Mobile gaming, Shooting games and the West basically overtaking this generation of gaming in the AAA strata. Still within that environment, XIII-2 managed to sell over 2-3 million (without counting DLC revenue) copies. And before that, XIII sold over 6 million. Nowadays, if your game sells over 1-2 million, it's usually considered a success.

Square Enix has slipped up majorly and they've also relied too much on outdated business models and customs. That has forced them to go to mobiles and relying on Eidos. Is Final Fantasy falling apart? The jury is up on that one. E3 is what holds the answer to all of that.

They have the tools to reclaim their throne. Just show Versus for PS4, XIV for PS3, PC and PS4. Hint at KH3 Boom, they're back. Even better if they have Eidos cooking up something for next gen (besides thief)

 

It's not just the linearity of XIII, though it does show a big problem. Everything from leveling up to the "hallway" as it's aptly called.

Me and burnitup were discussing it yesterday and there's just so many plotholes. It seems for every single storyline, it's contradicted completely and shows a gaping plothole later on. Even the central plot for the game that doesn't give you a clear directive, which can be okay if you still have a goal in mind and don't obsess about it for the whole game which they do. Later on, you find it bs the whole plotline, the major story of the game is a gaping plothole. That is not good writing. In an interview with the creators of XIII, they basically said: "We made it linear so the plotline is more focused on."

Final Fantasy VI had fantastic storyline and deep storytelling and it was open world. VII is still considered one of the best games ever made and it was VERY open world. There's a difference.

That and the characters. I notice now I still don't recognize most of the characters in the review. It is very thorough and I still can't differentiate them except I think Vanille who just irritates me and Snow who is very just bland. But that's just me, there is no depth about them, no substance. I'm sure that it's in the fifty thousand page database that is in the game, but I don't play games to read backstories in a database, I love flashbacks and storytelling that bring out the flesh of the character. Final Fantasy VI when they show Locke's backstory, you can actually feel his pain and grieving for what happened to him in the past. That isn't found on a database. You can't convey emotions through words.

I have heard people defending the storyline and questions brought up about the game saying: "If you read the database, you would know." Why do you need to look it up in the first place? Why can't it be in the game itself, five minutes of explaining would help a lot more than searching through a database and reading paragraphs of info you really don't want to know to get your answer is much longer. It just paddens the game.

As for the falling of Final Fantasy, it seems like they're past their peak. They either got too egotistical, got poor game developers and don't want to let them go, or something happened along the way to make it like this. The public apology alone for FFXIV which I know has massively improved since then, is a clue. You don't send out a game that is as buggy and as bad as XIV before you fix it all. The complaints from the game showed it wasn't ready to be released. Yet they did anyway for the cash cow defined as Christmas.

They're just disappointing the fans more and more.

 

Did you actually see play anything of the game or at least watched the cut-scenes to know? If you didn't, then I don't really see how you can just make the assertion that they've no substance or that something is in the database or not.

Opinions are not fact.

Because most of the things that do happen are shown in-game. The world's mythos and history however, often get relegated to the database because the game is short. I'm not going to defend the game on that, though. For the ending to work, they needed to explain a lot more.The game basically falls apart at the very end.

The game doesn't exist in a vacuum, however. XIII-2 really goes a lot into the history and mythos entirely.

 

Yes, there are many plotholes, but I still enjoyed the game. I didn't play it all the way through, but I still know that because some people don't like it, doesn't mean I shouldn't give it a chance.

As for the characters... I think the only way to recognize them all is to actually play the game. Heck, even me, I didn't play it all the way through, and I still can name all te characters off the top of my head.

Don't want to read the database? Okay, fair. Try a... Wiki maybe? In there, it's explained a lot more and it is shorter. It all depends on how far you're willing to go to enjoy the game. I despise Snow with a passion. He's an arrogant creep who needs to shut his stupid face up before Lightning hit- There she goes.

Anyway, I hate the guy, but reading his backstory on a Wiki helped me relate to him a bit. I won't go into detail, but it's true.

Chevalier is right. Just playing the game is enough to understand. I didn't understand the plot of Final Fantasy X at all when I was a kid, and you say it's one of your favorites. I hadn't even played the game. Would it be fair for me to bag on one of your favorites without playing it? No, of course not. It deserves a chance (right after Tidus is gone, but I'll explain that later).

 

Sorry, I thought I explained it well enough to not sound like I was bashing, I do sincerely apologize.

I just loved Final Fantasy until XII. It kills me to see what XIII looks like to me and a lot of other diehard fans. I know that several people liked it, fine. But that doesn't mean it still hasn't shown the strengths and excellence of Final Fantasy VII or VI which I will always stand by as one of my favorite games. Seeing it as even a review which I honestly take to heart because I don't have the money to spend 60 dollars or even ten dollars on a game that seems like FFXIII, I get my opinion from it. Maybe it's good in some ways because sales are still enough to make five sequels to the game. But I am allowed my opinion with my own thoughts and backing even if I didn't play the game.

 

No, you are, and sorry if I sounded like I implied you weren't, but the thing is that playing the game or watching a Let's-play helps a lot.

I get not being able to spend money on the game, but for me, watching a review isn't enough.

Honestly this just sounds like you watched Spoony's Review...

 

I admittedly have, but I also have gone to Gamefaqs and other sites to check them out. I filter to the more neutral ones to find the reviews that actually I know will give me a fair judgement on a game. Usually from 5-7 scores, sometimes eight depending on what I want to know. I do look at gameplay, story, characters and interaction with the world. I am usually very flexible with a few that can be eh'ish, but it has to hit my tastes also. I know people have different tastes and that's fine. Spoony isn't the first nor last to point out the flaws that I pointed out also.

Anywho........ Back to the topic so I don't get cracked over the skull by an admin. :P I don't know if there's a fanbase long enough to hold out for Final Fantasy. I know at some point maybe in the future they'll go back to the days that VII was in a lot of people's minds, not all. I do know that people don't like VII also, and that's fine. But maybe it's just the transition from die-hard gamers to casual that's making the ones like me who grew up with challenging and interactive worlds that we could explore are just going to be left behind.

 

Err ... are you sure you have the right number ? Not only do they give money, but a lot of them drop objects than can be piled and sold fairly quickly. FF XIII was the stingy one : monsters didn' t give any money and what they dropped was mostly better off kept and used than sold.

Anyhow, I didn' t mind the change of tone that happened in XII, when the usual director and composer have both kissed you goodbye that is to be expected. I didn' t mind the slight shift towards real-time action and micro-management either because they were optional, I could jump in and play manually at any time and the game paused itself whenever I was combing through a menu.

XIII on the other hand shifted the focus of combats completely, discarding the option to have game-pausing menus or to tell the IA to go screw itself elsewhere. Does it makes it a bad game ? Not fundamentally (though it didn' t really seduce me), but that' s just not what I expected from a FF. It felt as if the waiter had my order mixed up with someone else' s. From what I' ve seen so far Bravely Default looks much closer to what I' d expect from a FF.

As for the linearity I didn' t mind it too much in X : the game regularly offered a few options to get side-tracked for a while, and it was their first full 3D game so I was leniant. The previous FF were also fairly linear if you think about it, "I found an airship" moments aside. It was much more prominent in XIII though, there are zero options to get side-tracked before you reach 2/3 of the game (and even then there' s not much to do), and worst of all even the crystariums are tying our hands on several levels.

I didn' t think the story had more plot holes than usual or that the characters were blander, the FF shonen stories might have been part of what hooked me in when I was a teen, but that sure isn' t what I play them for anymore.

 

I don't think it's falling apart I think versus 13 is really gonna rock​

 

I never had enough money to pay for the licenses, the armor, the magic and everything else that required money. I grinded for hours and hours trying to get enough items to get the money, then the equipment, then the license points, then using the license points, then grind again for money. It became very monotonous for me and even though some people found "tricks" around it, I never really did and got tired of the grinding.

Not really, the linearity in Final Fantasy used to be nothing unless it was: "Hey, you can't go past here because of a plot specific reason." Hell, II I remember if you went in the wrong direction in the beginning of the game you'd end up with monsters a hundred times stronger than you and killed you in one blow. There was nothing stopping you from going that direction, though that's a bad thing if you have no idea where you're going.

Linearity is okay in some aspects, but a straight line, which though Final Fantasy X did have a lot of exploration in the areas you could go just went from point A to point B a lot isn't something that really appeals to someone like me who loves exploring. Final Fantasy VI and VIII had vast worlds that you could stumble unto something by accident without really knowing. The first time I played VII I hit Yuffi's village poorly prepared because I had no idea it was there. It adds more adventure where you can just sink your teeth into a world and explore with only a few plot reasons to stop you. But that's just my POV.

 

My experience of Final Fantasy isn't as expansive as other people's. I'm reduced to Tactics (my favorite game), and only bits and pieces of IV, VI, VI, VIII, IX, and X as well as Tactics Advance. I've only ever beaten Tactics, Duodecim/Dissidia, VII, and XIII. That said, I don't see any decline in the games in terms of quality. I think the fans are simply shifting from what they want in an FF game (or at least, the series is shifting from what it gives while fans are stuck on what they got before). Like Chev said, a big thing of it is that XIII was faced with representing the entire series in a new generation and it failed due to various reasons. Frankly, I loved XIII. I simply think that, with the linearity, it was focused towards a different type of gamer than the series had normally been. I personally loved the linearity (I played for the story and graphics, not the world). I don't have much time to play games so when I can actually push through the story and finish it without countless distractions, I enjoy it so much more. Not that I didn't have any problems with it, mind you, nor am I saying criticism of the game is unwarranted, I simply think that it took a different kind of gamer to enjoy the game than the series usually attracts.

However, I think Square learns from fan reactions and actually takes it into consideration. Look at IX: people wanted a more fantasy-styled world like pre-VI after the more science based post-V and they got it. I think the future games are a nice blend of sci-fi and fantasy. If you look at XIII: people hated the linearity and non-towns, so Square tried to address that with XIII-2. XIV, Square even tried to fix. Square isn't perfect at this, but I think some blame is also on the gaming community on what they expect or think a game should have. Companies change over time (as in, the people in it) so series tend to change with that, but as a fan, you play the entire series yourself. It's like a comic book series: when the writer or artist changes, it's usually pretty evident and it changes the feel of the series, but as a reader, I can view the entire thing and see when the quality changes.

 

Honestly, if you go back and look at FFVI and VII, they both have incredibly silly, shallow, or plain bad moments. It pains me to sya this, VI is my favourite in the series. But they're not as great as they are held up to be. And quite frankly, I find it silly that people complain about the story or characterization in XIII, since those are its strongest suits, besides, I suppose, graphics. The gameplay and level design is definitely atrocious, or at least, the gameplay doesn't actually become as good as its supposed to be until like 90% through the game, which is silly.
I'll just out this here:

for more thoughts on XIII

XII always felt like an MMO without the online. It's the kind of game you have to make your own fun with (I still remember the day I came back and could finally kill those stupid dinosaurs!)

And about XIII-2, not only did it sell millions of copies, but it's a game made reusing old assets, so the profit margin is even bigger

 

I'm surprised at the defenses for XIII I've seen here. I'm obviously not going to say that you're all objectively wrong, but, at least for me, it's not the fact that XIII was supposed to be the face for next-gen Final Fantasy games; its that, to me, it doesn't feel like Final Fantasy anymore.

The characters didn't really feel like they have much personality. While with the cast of a game like IX, it seemed each member of the cast was unique, XIII's cast felt like a gang of cliches, Snow and Hope being the worst offenders. Lighting and Fang were the only two in the entire game that I remotely cared about, but even that's a stretch to say. I barely feel like I got to know these characters and see them develop.

And while I loved the linear X, XIII got to the point where I just wanted to actually look at stuff instead of running through hallways and fighting. As one article says "It's impossible to visit the world of Final Fantasy XIII. All you can do is watch it. No wonder it felt so unsatisfying." . Literally everything you do in the game felt like it was just trying to keep pushing you towards finishing the game instead of actually taking in the atmosphere. The side-quests in older Final Fantasy games ranged from chasing dogs to solving puzzles to dodging lightning to card games. XIII had...more fights.

Granted, the combat system was (in my opinion) one of the best in the series, but it needs something else. Not to mention, the combat felt piss easy. I was repeating strategies for most non-boss battles. Nearly half of the game felt like a tutorial.

The story itself is...also affected by the lack of anything but combat. While there were many moments of comic relief and interaction with characters outside of the main cast in other installments, there's barely any of either in XIII. It's like a song with only a chorus and no verses. Having nothing to contrast against the conflicts makes the game feel flat and breaks immersion (to me.)

The game is gorgeous, and I really like the music and combat, but it just feels empty when the characters and world are barely explored. I'm not saying its a bad game, but it is, in my opinion, a poorly done Final Fantasy.

 

Sorry, I was just responding to the stuff about XIII. I have high hopes for Versus XIII (y'know, when it comes out NEVER), and I'm dying for Type-0 to be localized already, but Square don't seem for care for the US in regards for that title :\

But yeah, Square really need to shape up if they really are at all invested in Final Fantasy's reception. The PS4 reveal thing was pathetic. I'm sure I'm not alone in averting my interest into different JRPG series, like Persona.

 

After playing both FF13 & FF13-2 I am under the firm belief that Square is trying to slowly kill the series so they can go do other games.

I watched some two year old gameplay footage of Versus XIII (or Final Fantasy Forever as it should be called) and it looked pretty good. The gamplay was like Kingdom Hearts (makes sense because last I heard the guys who made KH were working on it) and at points to can take control of mechs and gun turrets! Mechs and gun turrets people! MECHS! AND! GUN TURRETS! In one video of two year old gameplay I was more hyped for a game seven years in the freakin' making then FF13 and its sequals. Why isn't it freakin' out yet?! ;_;