Heavy fighting in South Ossetia aka What the hell is Russia doing there?

TSKHINVALI, South Ossetia (CNN) -- Tskhinvali, the capital of the separatist Georgian province South Ossetia, lay in smoldering ruins Sunday after three days of fighting between Georgian troops and Russian forces.
A Georgian soldier sits atop a tank near the city of Tskhinvali.

A Georgian soldier sits atop a tank near the city of Tskhinvali.
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Russia's deputy foreign minister said at least 2,000 people, mostly South Ossetians who claim Russian citizenship, have been killed in Tskhinvali.

The fighting had spread well beyond South Ossetia, with Russian airstrikes on Georgian cities and with thousands of Russian troops in the breakaway province of Abkhazia.

The United States warned Sunday that "disproportionate" actions against Georgia could have a "significant long term impact on U.S.-Russian relations."

The foreign ministers of France and Finland were both expected to arrive in Tbilisi Sunday evening to talk with Georgia officials about peace efforts, a Georgia foreign ministry spokeswoman said.

President Bush on Sunday called French President and current EU head Nicolas Sarkozy to discuss the conflict, the White House said.

Both presidents "are on the exact same page," and emphasized the need for a cease-fire, disengagement, and respect for Georgia's territorial integrity, White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe told reporters.

Georgia began withdrawing its soldiers from Tskhinvali early Sunday, but Georgian troops remained south of the capital inside South Ossetia. Georgian troops and their tanks lined the road leading from Tskhinvali back to the positions they held before Thursday.

Alexander Lomaia, secretary of Georgia's National Security Council, said the withdrawal was a show of goodwill, aimed at encouraging Russia to accept a cease-fire.

Heavy shelling from Russian artillery also prompted the pullback. Lomaia said about 200 Georgian soldiers have died so far in Russia attacks. Video Watch report on latest violence in Georgia »

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin said talks could begin if Russian forces confirmed Georgia has completely withdrawn from South Ossetia and when Georgia signs a non-hostilities agreement.

The agreement, however, would have to include political changes for South Ossetia, Karasin said.

"They no longer believe they can live safely in the state of Georgia," said Karasin.

The fingerpointing over which side began the battle last Thursday intensified with Russia accusing Georgia of a genocidal plot to cleanse the region of ethnic Ossetians loyal to Russia.

Georgia accuses Russia of executing a long-planned war with the aim of taking control of the pipeline that carries Asian oil to Black Sea ports.

Russia's Black Sea Navy imposed a blockade on Georgia's coast, which it said was aimed at stopping shipments of military supplies into the country, according to Interfax, Russia's official news agency.

Urkaine, a former Soviet republic like Georgia, said it might prevent Russian navy ships involved in the blockade from returning to their bases in the Crimea, an spokeswoman with Urkaine's foreign ministry said.

"This statement is new to us and it requires analysis," said Russian Defense Ministry Colonel-General Anatoly Nogovitsyn. "It is a case of a third party intervening in the process, which is quite surprising."

Russia's Navy leases the bases from Ukraine through an agreement signed in 1997 which expires in 2017.

Russian soldiers in the breakaway Georgian province of Abkhazia warned Georgian troops to move out of their way as they intend to advance into Georgia's western region, Georgian Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili said Sunday.

The Russian forces plan to move into the city of Zugdidi, which is beyond the border of the breakaway province of Abkhazia, Utiashvili said.

White House Deputy National Security Advisor Jim Jeffrey said the United States was urgently looking into the report, saying that it would be a very serious escalation for Russia to move into Georgia beyond the Abkhazia region.

"We have made it clear to the Russians that if the disproportionate and dangerous escalation on the Russian side continues, that this will have a significant long-term impact on U.S.-Russian relations," Jeffrey, speaking to reporters in Beijing, China, on Sunday, said.
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Russian forces launched an airstrike against a military airfield near the Tbilisi International Airport early Sunday, Georgian officials told CNN.

The attack near the Georgian capital city came after a day of intense fighting in the former Soviet republic, with dozens of Russian warplanes bombing civilian and military targets in Georgia on Saturday.

The situation in South Ossetia escalated rapidly from Thursday night, when Georgia said it launched an operation into the region after artillery fire from separatists killed 10 people, including peacekeepers and civilians. It accused Russia of backing the separatists.

Russian tanks began rolling into Georgia on Friday night.

President George Bush, speaking from Beijing where he is attending the Olympic Games, called Saturday for an immediate halt to the violence, a stand-down by all troops, and an end to the Russian bombings. He urged the sides to return to "the status quo of August the 6th."

Bush spoke Saturday evening to Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili and Russian President Medvedev, a White House spokesman said. Video Watch Saakashvili talk to CNN »

French President Nicolas Sarkozy, who spoke to Putin at the Olympic opening ceremonies, also called for both sides to stand down and for "the full respect of Georgia's sovereignty and territorial integrity."
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The United States, the European Union, and NATO are working toward a cease-fire, and the U.N. Security Council met behind closed doors to discuss the issue Saturday.

Georgia, a pro-Western ally of the United States, is intent on asserting its authority over South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Both have strong Russian-backed separatist movements.

I was actually interested that there wasn't a thread like this. Why didn't Russia do this earlier? I actually wonder if Russia is helping S. Ossetia or willing to annexing them to N. Ossetia. I'll be supporting to the Georgians.

 

I wll hope with what I've heard recently, that the situation in Georgia is going to improve. I really don't know what the hell Russia's problem is. They seem to be all into expansionism again in an age where most of us like to think this behavior is outdated. I will agree with Bush just this once when he said that the tactics were similar to that used in the Cold War and that is over so we should move on.

I do understand there were Russian deaths but if they were not causing problems in Georgia in the first place and the Russians acknowledged Georgia's rights as a free nation, this wouldn't have escalated. I am glad the UN and U.S are involved and so far things may be improving...I sure hope so at any rate. I am going to have to look further into the situation though to understand the finer details since we get only the same story told repeatedly to us on the news and it's not saying more than what was posted there.

P.S. When did I become a saint?

 

When you got out that ol' heart of gold.

I do admit it seems like a repeat of the Cold War but the problem is, the Cold War happened, without the use of high military action, why repeat your mistakes twice?
It's scare tactics I suppose, intimidating the countries around Russia and the world, saying that they can take on whoever.

 

This is hardly a repeat of the Cold War if there is actual fighting involved. That goes against the entire principle and description of a Cold War.

Anyway, I see this as a desperate grab for power to try and show the world that Russia is a country to be reckoned with again, if it ever was. The country always has too many problems, and never anyone competent to solve them. And the years under Communism certainly had to be their darkest and most pathetic time. I personally don't think a country that big could ever get itself coherent enough to actually be a major global power (the USA is teetering on the edge tbh)

 

You are forgetting that during the Cold War other nations were used by all factions. It wasn't like the U.S. and Russia did nothing during that time. Afghanistan even is a show of what happened during the time. Russia needs to focus more on itself but unfortunately they seem to have an eye for expansionism instead which is only going to harm them. I agree with you that the leaders have never seemed to be able to fix the problems within Russia itself and instead many Russians have died due to the way the leaders think. Hopefully though something will turn around for them. I have friends there I do worry about when things like this happen. I'd hate to see with all the changes that have been made, we go back to the stance of the Cold War or this could actually escalate into worse.

 

Many people worry that this could lead to a WW3 =/ I also hope that Russia can stand on its own two feet at some point, but there is no excusing actions like this. Was there really any need for them to invade with such an overwhelming force like that? And the fact that they continued bombing long after a ceasefire was declared is nothing short of abhorrent.

 

Please, WW3?
If WW3 happens over this, than I don't know what the hell the 'civillised' people have come too. True Russia is getting to big for it's own boots, but sparking off world wide conflict seems like a drastic measure.

 

You are forgetting the many other events that minor on their own could build up to something much bigger. The missile defence network crisis, dwindling oil supplies (many of the pipes of oil and gas from the Middle East come through Georgia), dispute over new found resources in the Arctic (mainly between Russia, the UK [I think] and the USA), the assassination of Alexander Litvinenko on British soil and now this. (lol there are probably other things but I can't think of them xD)

All sides concerned still have nukes. All I am saying is that it is a possibility, not that we could do anything about it even if it did happen.

 

I didn'y mean it wasn't possible, it's just sad that since one nation starts trouble the whole world suffers. How many lives would be lost because we carelessly sent troops to support one group?

It's like watching a school fight unfold. You get one kid who starts trouble on someone else, than the victim gets his friends to help him and the bully get's his friends to help him and in the end we all get punched, kicked and bruised till we get bored.

 

Or we are all too injured to continue, or dead. The more advanced weapons are the faster and more effectively they kill people. Therefore a war now would results in hundreds of millions if not billions dead. A frightening thought through anyone's perspective.

But as you say, it probably won't come to that. I think that world leaders are too lazy (/spineless/cowardly lol) to commit to anything that major. Unless there was overwhelming public support of course.........

 

Well, it shouldn't be called War anymore, it should be called mass extermination thanks to the wonders of science, or as a delightful T.V show once saud 'This isn't a war, this is pest control'.

And I'm not too sure about that, it doesn't matter how lazy you are, if you get annoyed enough you'll do something about it, hence a many number of wars.

 

The good thing about modern bureaucracy is that it would take something like that months to make it through the UK government lol (and the Prime Minister has to ask the Queen before he can declare war ;P).

But yeah, a minor incursion that will probably be forgotten by history. We can also hope it leads to nothing else.

 

I heard about that from my history teacher.
He said it was because the Georgians were treating Russians that lived there harshly.

They shouldn't have took it that far, they should've talk to the Georgian leader about it or something.