Free will doesn't exist?

Firstly, I define free will as the ability for living beings to make a choice between options. E.g. Toast or cereal for breakfast.

Now the first point I have is that all things are set in stone. Nothing is random. There is always an action and a reaction, keeping the universe active. All those actions are influenced and decided by other actions, the beginning of the universe possibly excluded. For example, if I hit a ball against a wall in the same way three hundred times in a row, it will always hit the same point and will always bounce the same angle and speed. At no point will it instead of flying away at the usual 40 degrees, go shooting off at 150 degrees.

Taking this into account, life is not excluded from this rule. If the conditions are exactly the same every time I wake up, meaning that if all my brain cells and all the possible variables are the same, I will always do the exact same actions, and I will always choose the same thing for breakfast.

If all I have said above is true, that means that if you were able to read it right, you could discover the future of the universe from those first few particles that made the Big Bang. The future is fixed, not something able to be altered.

Getting to my point. Do we all believe that no one should be punished because of factors outside their control? If I am in a car, and suddenly the engine blows up, shooting the car forward, killing a pedestrian, I am not responsible. The same thing applies for genetics. No one should be punished for something they were not responsible for.

Therefore If I were to walk into a bank and kill someone right now, I would be innocent. After all, I would not have done that if not for external factors. How can I be responsible for the lack of money I have, or the crap education I got? And the reason I took this to mean I should rob a bank is in my genetics. If I shot that man just for fun, it is not my fault. After all, it is my genetics and my upbringing that gave me that mindset. I did not choose it as free will, it was forced upon me. How can I be charged for that?

Thoughts on this?

 

First of all... I dare you to try to pull that defense in court...

Secondly... we are all sentient beings, fully aware of all the actions we take, and able to rationalize everything we do, and what impact it will have on others.

Also... we are all accountable for our own actions, and all the consequences that go along with it.

 

Both of you overlook the fact that punishment is a deterent taken into account of the decisions being made.

One of the reason not everyone robs a bank, is because they know that if they get caught, they go to prison. Its part of the equation of what goes on in that persons head.

Also... don't go "Only a Lad, society made him," on me! I will destroy you! I have little sympathy to spare for those who are knowingly wicked and evil.

 

The Statement is self explanitory and i don't need to even read this quote to give my say.Freedom always was an illusion.People make certain choices of there own but stuff that menial could not be concidered free will in hind sight.

One reason why we have no freedom is the peramitors of our own psyche.Our minds tell us "that isn't possible" or "You can't do that".If you see something you want, and your mind says otherwise, what are the chances you'll get anywhere near what you want,e.g; a girl/a boy.

Another reason that we don't have freedom is the laws which are passed down by a cold and unfeeling government where, if it comes down to it we're all number in there eye's.I'd like to point out that they out law sex under a certain age,don't allow prostitution,Allow criminals to roam the street contrary to what a member of the public might say.Why are these governments incharge of our freedom to do what we are capable of doing e.g; Sex.

Another reason is religion.The laws of religion are sacred and most people don't say otherwise.The Rules of religion are put in a more sacred context to make them feel as if, if you don't abide by them you will be a bad person.This is why people don't disobey them.

Freedom is merely a flighting memory which no can have in this modern day.

 

I can tell you, I am tempted to try this in court. In fact, you could probably pull something like that in the org's court. After all, they are emotionless, so it would be very easy to prove that they only react to... Wait-a-sec. You're the defense!

It may be true it is a deterrent, but it is also a punishment. After all, people get let off lightly if they are insane, or because of other factors. If it were a deterrent, surely this would not be so.

What's more, is it a fair system, to punish people like that? I could suggest a three-strikes-and-you-get-crucified system as a deterrent for children putting their elbows on the table. I imagine the elbows would come off very quickly, but at what price?

There it is! You have little sympathy for those who are evil and wicked. However, what choice do they have? They are enslaved by their genetics. It is not their fault. Their genetics and their history has crafted their future. Nothing could have altered their fate. They possibly could have lived normal lives, but for their surroundings. They are indeed what they are made by society.

To put it simply, we are punishing people for what they are born as. If so, we have no defense about homosexuality being legal. (See other thread about legalities of gays)

Oh, and Daxma, I am talking about an actual lack of free will. Whether the state dies or whether we all run naked around mars, free will as we know it does not, and can never exist.

 

everyone has free will, the fact that you can choose is evidence enough. not even if it's being able to choose something else like being forced to do something, you're free to not like it or not to accept anything you don't want to. no, i dont' think insanity is the case of people with no free will, they have free will but they just use it differently. so yes, we have free will, even if laws prevent us from doing certain things we can still do that crime anyways if we choose to.

 

But in the same position, you will choose the same thing. If the settings are the same, you will repeat the actions. Every tiny thing affects the choice, from your history to your genetics. If you are a victim of the Laws of the Universe, why are you allowed to be punished?

The thing I brought up about insanity was to counter ICSP's deterrent belief. If it is purely deterrent, why not treat insane people and sane people the same?

 

why america?! WHY?!

if america is the home of the free, why r taxes so high?! and why is most of the nation bankrupt?!! darn u, politics!!! >:C

 

I disagree with your statement. We're all induvidal beings, with different genetics. Therefore, we can't do everything perfectly alike.
Meaning, everything has a different effect on different people. People are different, and act different and therefore that alone is free will. If you get a crappy education, it's most of the time your own fault. Maybe you don't have a chance to get and education if you live in certain places in Africa for example, but you can still be great at other things and learn other things, live don't have to be ****** only because you can't do a thing.
It's all a matter of the perspecitve you look at things. Which again brings me back to the point, you have your own free will to look at things how you want and how you handle things. One thing affects another and you make a desicion somehow, but it's off your own free will how you let things affect you and how you do things and how you act. If we didn't have a free will, everybody would walking around doing the same. Becausethe will would tell us to do it that way. So now I don't see people all over the world doing the same thing. Like you and me, you ask if free will doesn't excist, and I disagree. That's of our own free will we say and do such things.

 

Your entire premise is flawed. There is no such thing as certainty in the universe. For example, it is impossible to know the exact position and speed of a particle at any given moment. Also, a single particle can occupy many different positions in space at the same time.

If we knew everything about all of the particles at the beginning of time, we still could know not exactly what was going to happen. Each particle could taken many different paths (Think of it like standing in front of a cliff with 4 canyons, they will all take you to the same place and you will arrive at the same time, but the paths themselves are different). And as I have already said it is not possible to know the exact position and velocity of a particle (as to see a particle it has to be hit by at least one photon and in doing this the velocity and position are changed, the observation literally and directly affected the result). All physicists can do is predict the probability of certain outcomes, and then work with what turns out to be the most probable.

The universe is an extremely random place, but one we hope to reduce down to simple mathematics.

 

Wow I find it really tough to argue, so I agree. Well here's what I think: Everything living beings do is affected by their surroundings and instincts. Their instincts are determined by evolution. Evolution is determined by the environment. Let's take this quote, "Every man is born equal." Our surroundings after the moment we're born till we die affects how we live. This is what we call fate. At first I thought, us not having free will? That's ridiculous. Now I can't really say what I do is free will or if it was destiny. Hmm...

 

"Free will" is a man-made ideal. Just because it was created, doesn't mean it's real.

Free will can exist only if it isn't being sought after. Technically we all have the free will to do whatever we want. But if something is in the way, then it is no more.

 

Free will completely exists. As intelligent beings, we are influenced by the things around us, however, we are also able to analyze the situation and act on our own, thus embodying the concept of free will.

 

this may be found valid for a computer but to me i have found it is easy to make my own choices. i dont just dance cause i should or its in my blood i just do. the same with almost every choice i make they are all diferent. i consider it a hobby to do anything at any time as long as its leagle and within my morals fat does not guide me i do. the only spit of you thoery thats true is that we have no power to resist what we decide.

 

well in my opinon, even if something is in the way, the desire to want it is proof of free will

 

By definition, Free Will is making decisions with out ANY outside influences. However, our decisions and values are based off of our surroundings. Are we not influenced by our parents, friends, and family. Free Will may be obtained to some degree, but we can never have TRUE Free Will.

This is a major question in Philosophy, a class I'm currently taking.

 

you may be on to something....but then again.....

 

If I were to come kill you right now, you wouldn't be upset that I killed you? Answer that question honestly. We all have free will. We shape our own minds. We believe what we want to believe.