Africa - The dirty heart of homophobia

It was reported on the BBC news today that Uganda is set to introduce the death penalty for "serial homosexuals" although this may be downgraded to life in jail.

Even so, this is ridiculous. It has been PROVEN that being homosexual is from birth. Do they realise the irony of what they are suggesting? I could say that the death penalty should be introduced for black people (although I don't have the backing of religious texts), it's the same kind of thing.

And it isn't just Uganda, in Malawi a gay couple were put in jail for 14 years each for basically loving each other =/ As well is the abominations instigated my many other African nations.

When will this madness end. When will people realise that gay people do not choose to be the way they are. When will they realise that if they they decide that gay people do not deserve the same rights as everyone else then they undermine their own basic rights? Ugh, it sickens me.

 

_MOVED

to Current Events.

And just... wow. I don't know what to say besides that.

 

Lol Trust me, I didn't know the extent of it either. It sickens me so much. I refuse to send any aid of any kind to Africa anymore. Why should I? When people who are born the same way as me are being sent to prison or killed because they are born the way they are.

Africa is a shithole that REALLY needs to sort itself out before it deserves to receive any aid.

 

In all respect, most other countries need to sort themselves out before giving aid. See: United States, the land of the "free."

But yeah, I find it sickening as well. Africa isn't exactly as...progressed as the rest of the world, and I've always thought of that as an excuse, but now, I don't know.

But I guess I can somewhat understand how it happens, if I'm right. Africans are Africans. Other countries have immigrants pouring in over the years and new ideas and cultures brought about. But Africa doesn't. People go, but not really to live there. It's like the mindsets are stuck in the past there.

 

The only mindset that they are stuck with is whatever religion has told them that it is "an abomination" that has to be eradicated (almost always the Roman Catholic faith, but virtually always Christianity in general).

I don't see why the UK should waste aid on Africa. We should get what resources we can out of what areas we control then leave and only come back when they have figured out how to create a civilised society. They are pretty **** at that kind of thing =/

 

True... The UK just gives the money without realy seeing what its being spent on, therefore causing corruptancy amongst those who have that power, and the people in turn abuse it to their own will and buy luxurious things for themselves and/or weapons and security to protect themselves. Look at Robert Mugabe. Is he really doing anything to help the society around him?

I mean come on... The only people who live 'the rich' life in Africa are those with power. I may even use a sociological term here, but I fear that once I do I'll end up making a whole sociological debate based on homosexuality, class, ethnicity and the society. Good revision, but will take a while.

I guess its the simple fact that when some of the people that live there have their minds 'set' on one rule, they follow it and live by it regardless of the consequences... Some may say that they are timid of those with power, that if they fight back a rebellion may occur. Most of the fault sadly has to do with both Religion and Politics, as they use their institutions to control people to their own will. Take Marx's views on the Ideological State apparatus. On top of the pyramid you have Royalties (or Politicians)... Then you move down onto the Pope, then Physicians (Or White Collared workers), then the rest go afterwards. People may not have as much of a say as we do though, as they have lived their lives this way and its all they actually know about the topic. Most of them probably haven't even been out there to see how things may actually work.

Ok... I'd best stop now. Bl

 

Cherry Berry, I pretty much agree with all that you have to say. ANd this is a conflict in society, so sociology is very prevalent.

So your saying that all the people, from men, to women to children all deserve to die, because we don't have the same views as them? Don't forget that the UK was once one of the most homophobic countries in the world one time in history. Africa may change. They may not. But it's not like we can force them to change themselves. Look at the middle east if you want a modern interpretation on British biggots getting involved in foreign policies with little justification for thier actions.
Also don't forget that your talking about a law. And a law doesn't always reflect the people. I'm sure their are a number of laws people don't agree with, such as the sxploitation of the benefits system, where the able bodied and unemployed workers, who, instead of seeking reasonable income, are too lazy to obtain a job and instead drain off from the governemnt's already high defecit problem. We can't say whether the law represents the country as a whole. Don't damn every African because of a law that may not reflect their own personal views.
I certaintly didn't vote for the Conservative party to be in power, and as such their thoughts are not reflective of mine. And just because they are in power doesn't mean i'm going to leave the country over it.

And all I really hear is someone from the UK claiming that the whole of Africa holds millions of homophobic people, because apparently their religion demands them to be like that. I want more than that.

 

I really am dismayed as well to hear this happened and read about it a few days ago. Of course, westerners don't have much of a right to complain, however. Years of seizing places in Africa, spreading the religion around, missionaries from Mormons, the Catholic church and other religious organizations have gone there and pretty much handed a Bible out as mandatory when giving any kind of aid at all to these people. This mentality of telling people to not use protection because it's against the religion, that being gay is a sin and in Africa, sins can be punished old skool style, and women are subordinate to men, has really messed the Africans up. This behavior has also been generously given to other cultures around the globe as well, such as in torn areas of India, South America and Haiti.

Africa, as well as South America and some other areas, also have issues with dictators and war lords, drug cartels etc. In Africa, there are miserable ties to the diamond industry where the people there are paid a pittance for extreme labor. Aids has torn the continent of Africa and it is feared greatly. Thanks to some weirdos, the belief that if a man has sex with a virgin, he may be cured of Aids... this has resulted in many women dying and children being born without parents. The rule of 'abstinence' also has always fallen on deaf ears, regardless of where we are in this world. Thus, the rule of no contraception has really screwed things up even worse.

In the end, I really think more charitable organizations that are NOT religious should be assisting Africa and there are plenty of them out there. That way schools are taught more fairly, men and women and children can get some educations and the religious fervor would hopefully after a decade or ten die down. The western cultures have ravaged a way of life the Africans had and it wasn't perfect to begin with but we've made them stationary and dependent. As much as some people say they'd pull their funding from Africa relief efforts, I can say that I don't feel we should. However, I do think we should alter how we fund them and put money to better organizations than -churches-. They don't fix things. It's not benevolence to help someone while messing up their lives at the same time. The African people suffer with high infant mortality, Aids, malaria, drought, lack of work, and rotten dictators and morons that kill people without a thought for just being in the way. They do need help despite their awful views on homosexuals.

Hell, at this point, I'd say that our governments perhaps could try to say we will allow homosexuals to be deported to one of our nations instead of jail time or death as an option. This way homosexuals do have a choice in their futures if they are going to be ostracized, let alone in such an awful way. I'd rather have them come to our nations and get some help rather than these militant Islamic followers that are moving about and trying to force us to change, despite wanting to live in our countries. Then, as said formerly, I'd say that aid to the countries in Africa should be altered and no more religious efforts there should be done so that people can calm down on the hate and actually get educations to help them and better their lives. If we need more money to fund the effort... tax churches. Other organizations are non-profit and still pay 'some' taxes so I don't see why churches still get freebies when their missions are not pure. Then again, that's another topic all together.

 

That is horrid. And ****ing scary. If it gets passed as a law, it could and should be considered genocide. I will be even more disgusted if the UN doesn't do anything about this.


Stopping aid to Africa, however, won't do anything to help this. If you choose the right organizations to support, the money goes directly to the organization and the people in need, not any of the African governments. It's the messed up government's problem.

 

When I said that it doesn't deserve any aid, I mean that the literal billions of pounds/dollars that has been poured in seems to have made little if any difference. Either through the corruption of their governments or from the rebel organisations that seem to exist in every country against said governments the money and aid doesn't get to where it needs to go.

I say either leave them to sort it out or actually physically step in and do something about it before we waste more money that could do so much good at home.

As for the homophobia laws, it just shows how backward the societies still are. And on the topic of missionaries, that is the fault of the churches not of the people of the countries involved.

 

Wow, you sound like a racist to me sir..."don't put any money into that S-hole" really? really? Is that really the answer. And never have I ever read any scientific evidence where people are homosexual from birth. It's just like the cheating jean. They both have such horrible evidence that I have to decide for myself that it's a poor attempt by scientists to try to explain something that they don't have proper research on.

I have nothing against homosexuals, but hating Africa just because they kill homosexuals is just outrageous. They do that in the Middle East and hate crimes are STILL committed here too! And they get away with it! 10 years in jail is NOT proper punishment for murder.

So you mind as well hate the US too.

Also comparing the civil rights struggle for justice to gay rights is just completely ridiculous! You can clearly tell if someone is Black. Back in 1940, if you had a little bit of color, they considered you black and treated you like dirt. You can't tell someone is gay unless they tell you, or they show gay mannerisms, and then you still don't really know.

Comparing the two really angers me, because it's a choice to be gay, you aren't born that way. You're born black whether you like it or not. You can't switch over without bleaching your skin (which is proven to cause cancer).

So don't feed me this bull that gay people are born that way, because there is no proper amount of evidence to support it.

 

Actually, I would disagree with you that being gay is a 'choice'. We can debate bisexuals, assuredly, but being outright gay is an orientation and it is something that affects a person and can be noted early on. It's not something caused by environment. If it was, then surely after years of persecution and death from religious zealots would have nipped it in the bud. Homosexuality has been around for as long as humanity has. There are also animals that have exhibited gay behavior and it was noticed -early on- in their lives. It's a chemical wiring, very likely the person was born with the tendency and nothing really shows that it is just a 'choice' for straight out homosexuals. They are not attracted to members of the opposite sex. That is just how it is. Bisexuals are different and for them it may be more of a choice and attraction but I have yet to know a gay person who has not said wholeheartedly that they've felt the way they do for as long as they could remember.

I also think it is deplorable that there are still places in the world (including the western world) that have hatred of homosexuals and you are right. There are deaths that happen even in the U.S. because of attacks on homosexuals, or the person commits suicide because he or she is literally ostracized from his/her family and peer groups. Things grow better in the western world but we still have people to contend with to keep things progressing and to stop the hatred. Africa, you may as well consider, with its state of being, is behind us. So is the Middle East. Equal rights and recognition that all life has value to it unless it is a -threat to life-, is a hard thing to promote when people live in fear and hatred all the time. It's easy to single out targets when you yourself are afraid of messing up and taught from birth that things are wrong and you better obey or else.

I agree with what you said otherwise, but homosexuality is not just a choice.

However, I again say that we should still continue aid to African countries because again, our ancestors changed their ways of life that let them survive and we do have the capability to assist them. Their living conditions in some areas is atrocious. By all means, we should work on trying to change their attitudes and this is again, why I said we should choose secular non-religious groups to go to aid more so than religious establishments. You can say, Patsy, that missionaries aren't responsible and that their country leaders are, but the reality is that missionaries -are- partially responsible. Being half Native American, I've seen what they have done in this country, let alone to South America, Mexico and Africa. These ideals that homosexuality is a crime punishable by prison or by death come from where? It's why even in western countries we still contend with people that feel homosexuals ought to be killed, deported, and have no rights. There is no foundation for it other than the Abrahamic religions that condemn it, and many Christians even see this as wrong, but sadly some don't. In a continent full of despair, death, AIDS, disease, famine, etc...things are going to be worse. That's how it goes.

I agree with you that some of the efforts there seem frivolous at times because of the dictators, corruption and what not, but some of it does get to the people there who need it and to take it away just seems very wrong to me. Yes, this is a rotten thing to do and I do think we should be able to negotiate something that says if a homosexual couple or whatever are found, if they can't stay there without imprisonment or death, they should be able to be deported to one of our countries where they would be accepted. Otherwise, we can't do much for them. If at least non-secular organizations go and start toning down the hostilities, it might help so they learn tolerance. I doubt taking away aid at this point would make a difference to them as far as this goes and would probably only make more people die needlessly.

 

You know what? **** Africa. With crap like this, they don't deserve all this aid and crap. Put it to more deserving areas. These are hate crimes - they wouldn't be tolerated here, so why should be be helping areas being led by hate crime committers? Europe has an economy problem going on. Money should be forwarded to helping them. They're not making moronic laws like these.

 

I'm someone who firmly believes homosexuality is caused by environment or experiences. When I was a kid, I was molested by my older cousin. Ever since that happened, I started having attractions to men that started with me staring at the half-naked men on the underwear containers at walmart when i was about six, and eventually got much fiercer than that. Before it happened, I never felt sexually attracted to either gender, as far as I can remember.

The thing is, even though I'm attracted to men, I still make the choice not to be gay. What I mean is, I've made the conscious decision never to act on the urges that plague me, because of my Christian faith among other things. I believe that gay people can do the same thing, but I don't see why they would unless they're religious in some kind of way.

I don't believe it's right for Africa to what they're doing, but I don't think it means we should stop giving aid to them. If it comes down to it, we can probably make them stop doing it.

 

The only choice gay people have is to be themselves or to pretend/lie to everyone else. In my mind there is only one moral choice there and it is to be yourself.

 

Actually, yes there is. I don't have the link on me right now, but scientist desicovered a few years back that there is a portion in the brain of a homosexual person that is larger than that of a hetrosexual person.

With regards to the law. That's outragious. I hate to think that someone can be killed because of who they love. And especially in countries with a christian faith, where unconditional love is supposed to be the main doctrine. So what if they don't produce children, if they love each other, who cares? Also, in my freinds bible, she showed me that there is a passage which says the "God looks on homosexuality with compassion". I mean, c'mon, we live in 2010, not 1910. In the past 100 years, many people#s attitude towards homosexuality has not changed that much, and as an activist for gay rights (my brother is gay), I feel outraged about this. Is it really any different to anti-semetism?

On the flipside however, I don't feel that blocking aid to all of Africa is the solution. Africa is in dire need of help. During the victorian era in Britain, we plundered Africa for Jewels, wildlife, Ivory and all kinds of other "exotic". I feel that us giving aid to them to help them get out of the mess that WE put them in, is just another way of re-paying them for the things we stole all of theose 150 odd years ago. I mean think about it. Who put in the religion? We did. Who installed the original governments wich became the corrupt ones of today? We did. Who started the slave trade and stole african men and women from their rihtful homes? We did. Who needs to sort out the mess with help from the African people? We do.

Also, a little sidenote. The country in question: Uganda, it undergoing immense terror at the moment from Joseph Kony and the Lord's Resistance Army. Basically, in the night, his people kidnap children from the villages and brainwash them, torture them and sometimes even mutilate them to make them think that joseph Kony is some sort of God and they become child soldiers. This is an issue which really needs more coverage. For more information visit www.invisiblechildren.com. Their cause is very close to my heart; rescuing these children from a terrible fate.

So yeah, that's really all I have to say about this, unless I can find something else to say later.

Kthnxbi.

 

I've read this study. While it is true, it is still inconclusive whether you are born with this abnormality or whether it develops over time (due to environment, experiences, or choice).

 

I don't see it as an abnormality though. I see it is natural. As Repliku said, many animals have also exhibited homosexual tendancies and they don't have the sort of high-level thinking that we do to be able to choose to be gay or not. Plus, brains don't just grow out of experiances or a choice. The gene has to be there in your chromosomes for it to happen.

 

The homosexual tendencies in animals have been shown to be a matter of dominance, kind of like prison rape. I'm not a brain surgeon, but the study I read said that it is entirely possible that the abnormality (and yes, I consider it an abnormality) can happen over time as opposed to you being born with it.

 

LOL What about the gay penguins who try to "adopt" chicks from heterosexual couples? There have also been studies to show that the brain structures of homosexual men and women are more like those of heterosexuals of the opposite sex.

I would love to be able to choose to be straight, but I can't physically do it and it's insulting to be told otherwise.

I would also like to add that I posted this thread while rather drunk and after first reading about the human rights abuses in Africa. I don't actually think that cutting off all aid is a good idea, but certainly changing the way it is delivered is necessary. Perhaps bypassing local governments?