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Like, half the Organization made me feel bad. XP

Demyx made feel like I kicked a puppy. I thought it was pretty sad, personally. But it was more of a "what the hell ._." moment for me because of Sora.

Axel. Self-explanatory. What got me was how he was joking about it; it made me feel bad for laughing. And then it made me cry. The entire scene was freaking sad. =/ Would've been sadder if he lived, I agree ("fate worse than death" comes to mind...). But... Still.

Pretty much this. That was what made me decide I really liked the guy, actually. XD I hadn't cared much about him on up until then, and suddenly, I felt so sorry for him. Now he's one of my favorite characters.

Xemnas' death didn't make me feel any particular way about him, except the look on his face took me by surprise for a moment. I was a little disappointed his death scene was so quick, though.

Haven't played Re:CoM yet, unfortunately, but I've seen Vexen's death scene. I was surprised, mostly, and I was wondering if he was still conscious when he... Exploded. =/ Ouch.


Anyone remember the Proof of Existence room in the World that Was Poorly Named? ._. I didn't realize what it was at first, and the first one I stumbled upon said "The Graceful Assassin." I didn't recognize it at first and was confused for a minute, but then I found the one that said "Flurry of Dancing Flames." It hit me was the room was supposed to be. XP

Aw, crap. D=

• He didn't do much. At all. We see him in a few scenes, then he died.
• He seemed pretty show-off-ish, to me. Not cool.
• Why'd he go after Riku? Riku didn't know he existed, so why didn't he just leave him alone and escape with his life?
• Why didn't he just go back to the Org. and report Marluxia to Xemnas? That sounds safer and that would've stopped Marly a lot faster and he... Might not've died. Seems like a smarter thing to do.
• He got Lexaeus killed... I dunno, I got nothing.

I freaken' love Saïx:

• First off, I love the werewolf-thing he had goin' on. =D Just awsome. I love how his character seems to be based on that, both looks and personality-wise.
• I love his voice. Completely emotionless, apathetic, calm, and at the same time, mocking. I love how he pulls it off. And then he's suddenly screaming at you and throwing stuff at you and throwing you across the room! And then he suddenly goes back to being totally calm. =D And then he died, and his voice changed again, and he sounded so sad and... I just love his voice. XD
• I saw a lot of potential for his character. KH2 didn't really develop anyone's character in depth, so they can do pretty much whatever they want with him in Days.
• In the Days trailer, there was a scene with him and Axel where he says that there's a traitor in Castle Oblivion and, on Xemnas' orders, Axel is to eliminate the traitor when they find him. Axel asks if it's really an order from Xemnas and Saïx hesitates before answering. Leaves a lot of unanswered questions there, which I think is really interesting. =D
• Guys with pierced ears = Awsome
• From the way Saïx talked to and about Axel in the novel and in the game, it's pretty clear he hated him for some reason. I think that's interesting, too, especially since Axel is my other favorite character. Hoping Days will explain why.....
• Also like the potential BBF-ness between Saïx and Xemnas. XD
• Freaken' Berserk Mode! =D How is that not awsome?
• I didn't really start to like him until the scene where he died... I love how he just gave up... "Kingdom Hearts... Where is my heart?" I felt so sorry for him....

=D In conclusion, Saïx is awsome.

I don't think they do either, because Ansem having a 7-year-old apprentice is hard for me to believe. Hopefully, we'll find out.

I agree. I thought DiZ explained more about Namine than he did about Roxas, personally.

Alright. So, then what about Namine? She didn't remember anything about Kairi, did she? (I don't think she did, at least....) How's that possible? She also didn't have an element like those in the Org., but I suppose her powers over Sora's memories may make up for that....

Right. You said Nobodies don't bleed, so I added in my own two cents....

I couldn't tell if you were talking about Xehanort or Xehanort's Heartless....

Nothing about Ienzo was strongly implied, unless I missed an interview somewhere, but that's still a good guess, I suppose.

I didn't mean to say that Ienzo only could have had an high school education, it was just an example.

What if Ienzo was extremely talented in the field of science? Talented enough and educated enough in science to be on par with (or even smarter than) Ansem's other apprentices? And what if he was also especially inventive or clever or fast or skilled or, in other words, an asset in some way to Ansem and his other apprentices?

Regardless, for whatever reason, Ansem accepted Ienzo as his apprentice. I would think that meant that Ansem respected Ienzo's abilities and knew Ienzo could greatly help him. Ienzo was young, whether he was 16 or 7. Since he was so young, Ansem must have trusted him , recognize his potential, and valued his opinion a great deal to allow him to be one of his apprentices at all. It would be that case no matter if he was 16 or 7 years old. Therefore, the fact that Ansem built the lab on his suggestion means nothing.

Never tried to deny that Ienzo was intelligent and I never tried to say he only could have had a high school education. Obviously, in at least one subject, he must have been a genius. In all other subjects, who knows? Who cares?

For the record, Zexion had 9 years to study, research, experiment, learn, do pretty much whatever he wanted. If Nobodies do age, he would also have been older. Zexion may not totally speak for Ienzo.

Yeah. I agree. I'm not denying that the Org. members and Ansem's apprentices had to be intelligent.

We can only hope. ^^ It'd really be nice to see them all.


Apologies for resuscitating the thread.

Smashing something until it dies usually works. I run into battle hacking and slashing and smashing the attack button.

I hardly ever use magic or items; Cure occasionally, but that's about it. I don't rely on speed, either. (Glide is useful, but I don't find many occasions to use it.) Drives are usually not necessary. On the rare occasions when something refuses to die, I'll resort to strategy. But usually all I have to know is when I can beat the tar out of it and when I can't.
But I can adapt to pretty much any style, I think. Except maybe a speed-based style....

So, then what about Roxas?
Roxas had no memories of Sora, Ven, no one, nothing. If Nobodies are composed of darkness, an element, strength of will, and memories, why does Roxas have a body without memories? Not only that, he looks just like Ven. Even if Sora magically had memories of someone he might have met when he was 4 years old, Roxas didn't. How is that Roxas' nonexistent memories made him look just like Ven?
Namine also had no memories, for that matter.
And if they don't have their original bodies, what happened to them? They were just destroyed? And what about Ansem (Heartless)? Xehanort said he cast off his body, which meant Ansem didn't have a body, right? (At least, didn't someone say something like that...?) That's why Ansem possessed Riku, right?
So, Ansem didn't have a body. Apparently, neither did Xemnas. If Ansem's body still existed, why didn't he possess it? If because it was destroyed, how?

Sora didn't bleed either. No one did. I don't think there's enough evidence to say either way, but that is a whole other argument and irrelevant at the moment.

That's right. But... Xehanort ceased to exist 9 years before KH1, around the time Hollow Bastion fell... Ansem and Xemnas took his place... So it's not possible for Xehanort to have gotten any older. Ansem and Xemnas, on the other hand, look older than Xehanort, in my opinion.

How's it clear what or how much knowledge Ienzo had?

He could have been extremely good in at least one subject; he could already have been through college or higher in the one subject he was good in. (That subject being something like science or math or something.) He wasn't old enough to have been completely through college, of course.

Ansem said he was "spurred on" by Ienzo. "Spurred on" means "encouraged" or "gave incentive." The word doesn't imply having been coerced or persuaded or talked into. Therefore, the one thing said specifically about Ienzo doesn't say anything about his intellect or argumentative skills.

Ienzo wasn't mentioned as one of the top scientists. Just as one of the ones who followed Xehanort (according to Ansem) and one of the scientists doing the work with 5 others.

We don't know how brilliant Ienzo was... Must have been pretty brilliant, of course, certainly more than a high school education, but not necessarily in all subjects. Maybe only in science or math or whatever Ansem accepted him for.

No one ever said he was a scientist legitimately. Maybe that's why he was apprenticed to someone? Instead of credentials, maybe in the universe of Kingdom Hearts, you're apprenticed to someone instead.

Cool. Do you think you could find a source for that?

Erm... BBC?

I agree. Braig, at least, should have a part in BBS (since Xigbar seemed to know so much about the past Keybearers). And if they're going to show Braig, and possibly Even, there'd be no better time to show the other apprentices.

He also seemed surprised his apprentices, people he trusted, betrayed him at all. He didn't single out Ienzo except to say who inspired him to build the lab.

He could be. It's just difficult for me to believe Ansem would trust an unexperienced 7-year-old not to get hurt performing dangerous experiments.

I realize that.

Xemnas, it's still debatable.

I realize that. Was only stating why it's hard for me to believe that all Nobodies age.

I see a theme here: Roxas, Namine, and most likely Xemnas all age. But Roxas, Namine, and Xemnas are all the "special" Nobodies. (Whatever that means.) There's no evidence the other 11 (now 12) Nobodies age, and they aren't "special" (as far as we know). So, which conclusion is easier to jump to? "All Nobodies age" or "all 'special' Nobodies age"?

I understand.

How's this clear?

We don't actually know that for sure....

Was that scene with Xigbar and Zexion dated? I've always wanted to know when that conversation actually took place.....

We don't know exactly how smart he was, we don't know what he did, we don't know what he was capable of. All we know is that he inspired AtW to build the lab. That's it.

Would you take that same 7-year-old seriously if he had previously proved himself to be wiser/more clever/more creative/faster/whatever/all of the above than your other, much older apprentices? He couldn't have been more intelligent, he just wasn't old enough, but there are other reasons to take someone seriously and other reasons for Ansem to have accepted someone as his apprentice.

Also, we don't know how serious Ansem took Ienzo.

That's the only time when anyone singled out Ienzo for anything. =/ That does not say anything about Ienzo's argumentative skills, nor about how much Ansem valued Ienzo's opinion.

Why 16 or 17? Why not older or younger? Why not 7?

I knew an 8-year-old doing high school work IRL.
What if Ienzo was, I dunno, amazingly good at some subject, like science or math or something? Good enough to be on the same level as Ansem's other apprentices, or at least close to it? But he's certainly young enough to need a tutor. What then? Is that possible?

I don't think so... I'd like to think so, but I don't.

Mainly because of Zexion. Leon said that it'd been 9 years since they'd left Hollow Bastion. We can assume Ansem's apprentices turning into Nobodies happened about the same time Xehanort's Heartless took over and Hollow Bastion got overrun with Heartless. (That is what happened, right?)

So, how old was Zexion when he died? 16, 17? I'll say 16.

16-9=7

So, if Nobodies age, Ienzo (Zexion's other) would have to have been 7 years old when he was Ansem's apprentice for Zexion to be 16 in CoM.

I guess it's possible for one of Ansem's apprentices to only have been 7 years old, but very unlikely, don't you think?


Namine and Roxas probably age, though. I don't know exactly why (I've heard a few different reasons, and given the lack of confirmed facts about this subject and the various interpretations of the evidence, they all seem plausible), but I think they do.

Here's Namine in Re:CoM compared with Namine in KH2.
Just to be sure, here's a picture of Namine in Re:CoM.
Here's a picture of her in KH2.

...I see differences. True, the graphics of Re:CoM are slightly different than the graphics of KH2, but:

...Pretty much, yeah.


Also, if Roxas is younger than Sora, shouldn't he have been shorter? If Sora were standing straight, they'd be the same height.

If Namine aged, it would be weird if Roxas didn't, since they were both born under almost exactly the same circumstances.


However, it was said many times throughout KH2 that Roxas and Namine were "special" Nobodies. Maybe that means they could also age. I'm willing to attribute it to that.



...It's also hinted Xemnas was a "special" Nobody. And, to me, he looked older than Xehanort. Apparently, he's also taller. (But I lost the picture that showed that... It compared Xehanort with Xemnas with Terra in armor.) But, whatever.

At least one of these fits Roxas' personality, IMO. Not the giant-key-wielding part, the part where he responds to things like anyone in real life would.

It is? Oh...
Well, everything makes more sense, then.

Thank you! That's pretty much everything I wanted to know.

I see. So Riku was simply saying that since the light was safe, now they should protect the dark?

Yes, I've played the game before, replayed it a few times, but that was something I never understood. Sorry if it seemed n00bish. Riku put it strangely, if that's all he was saying. I couldn't figure out what he was talking about. Thank you, all!

Repliku put it better than I could.

That seems like a good way to look at it. I agree, I think.

That's interesting. The scene could be secondarily symbolic of death.

I never really liked him much, but I liked him a lot better in KH1/CoM than in KH2. (Was pretty much indifferent to him in the first game. And I haven't actually played CoM.) For the exact same reason. How funny....

Forgot about that. "SORA ANGRY! SORA KILL!" At least Roxas smashed the computer instead of killing someone. =/ Another reason why I like Roxas better than Sora.

*TwilightNight* explained it better than I could.

Personally, I can't bring myself to like any character unless I can relate to them in one way or another. I really can't do that with Sora in the second game, so I don't like him much. But, that's just me, that's probably unnecessary to this discussion.


Edit: Repliku took the words out of my mouth.

When I first played the game, I didn't actually like Roxas much.
Mostly because he always seemed angry and selfish.
Of course, he had some pretty good reasons, but it still turned me off to him at first.

Then, DiZ was so cruel to him. I mean, I didn't even really like Roxas, but Christ! What did Roxas do him? What warrented DiZ being so... Just, evil to him. And torturing him like he did. Anyway, that made me start to like Roxas a little more. (And start to hate DiZ.)

By the end of the game, I throughly hated DiZ didn't dislike Roxas anymore, but I didn't particularly like him, either. Was kinda indifferent to him, and still am. Maybe Days will change my mind about him.

But I seriously liked him better than Sora. =/ I really didn't like Sora in KH2. Roxas seemed more intelligent and more willing to talk and figure out what was happening instead of fight; Roxas also seemed more mature. Sora immediately decided to fight instead of ask questions, he didn't want to avoid fights. And I shouldn't have to point out Sora's maturity level.

But, mostly, I liked Roxas better because he was realistic.

Yes. Perfect. Exactly.

In KH2, Sora pukes happiness and candy and sunshine and joy and joyness. =/ "Hey guys, lets go save the univarse LOL!!!!1 =D" He only had two emotions: happy and not happy (rarely). At one point, I think he spent a total of 10 seconds sad.

Roxas reacted realistically to things. He got angry, he got depressed, he had his issues and he dealt with them the way any normal person would.

That really makes Roxas easier to empathize with than Sora, which makes him a better character, IMO.

Demyx isn't on my favorites list, but I still like him a lot. ^^

He's funny. Hilariously funny. "Run, run away!"

And... Aesthetically pleasing. ^^ I don't care for mullets, but Demyx pulls it off.

And Demyx is just... Cute. Like, y'know, when a toddler runs around going "I'm a big kid now!" That kind of cute.
(Not trying to compare Demyx to the toddler, just explaining what kind of cute he is.)

I can't really explain why I like him, I guess....

Ohh... Alright, didn't realize that. I think it's still interesting to see the different translations, though. They're not totally the same, they have some extra details and different versions of what's said. Small things, though. XP

Heh, same here. I'm also hoping the volumes won't get super delayed like the manga.

The third translator you listed has translated a little more than that. :D

http://linnen.livejournal.com/638369.html
http://linnen.livejournal.com/638472.html

Thanks for posting the links! ^^ The novels are really informative. I'd love to see some of these scenes in game.
The novels will come out in English, right? I heard they'll be out in June.

I got into Kingdom Hearts the same way I got into Final Fantasy... And video games at all, really. This'll be long....

About a year ago, my best friend found some FF AMVs to songs she liked, so she started looking for more of them. She seemed content to just listen to the songs and ignore whatever was happening in the AMV (though we both found characters we liked, and still like), but I was confused why the blond guy jumped off a cliff and I wanted to know whether he died or not. So, eventually, I looked up Final Fantasy in Wikipedia... And got immediately hooked to it.

So, I read through all the articles on Wikipedia had on FF (the blond guy who jumped off a cliff was Tidus. And that guy I liked that I kept seeing with the scar was Squall. And Tifa, Rinoa, Yuna, and Lenne are not the same girl. ^^; ), and at the bottom of most articles of the main characters was something saying that they showed in Kingdom Hearts. I'd already heard of that, it was the Disney game my other friend liked with that guy with red hair and that blond kid. (I thought Axel was the main character, since my friend always went on about him. XD And I'd seen Roxas and Axel in people's signatures on forums. And I think I saw a commercial for CoM at some point. It scared me. "Goofy and... Some weird kid with a giant toothbrush?") But KH looked really confusing, and the Disney part kinda turned me off.

Then I met a guy who was really into KH. ^^ I wanted to be able to talk about KH with him, so I went back and attempted to understand it. I didn't get the Heartless/Nobody thing, but now I wanted to play it.

And then I got a PS2 for my birthday and my nephew (only two years younger than me) got me KH and KH2. (He knew I liked it and he remembered playing, himself. He didn't get it either and he couldn't get past Traverse Town.) So, I played, finally understood it, and got totally hooked on it. And managed to get my nephew and best friend to love it, too.


Long story short: Saw stuff on youtube, read it on Wikipedia, eventually played it, got hooked.
...I could have just said that. XD