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Mak, you said you'll probably be dead soon: That's why people want to make use of your reads. You won't be around long so we may as well make use of you while you're here. You're the closest thing we have as an authority figure and well, you seem to know what you're doing. Why not put a little faith in you while we still can?[DOUBLEPOST=1416104959][/DOUBLEPOST]Mish, I don't think they can do it twice in a row but otherwise yes.

Beau, if you've seen any of the things that I've posted recently, what do you make of those? I'd like to hear what you make of my thoughts on Hyuge. They're pretty vague, but do you think there's any merit to them?[DOUBLEPOST=1416105355][/DOUBLEPOST]Actually, anyone can offer their view on that. I'd like to see some feedback on my Hyuge post. I don't go searching through the thread on a mild feeling of wrongness for nothing you know guys!

Indeed RIP tale.

I just want to get a reaction out of people, that's all. Now that I think about it, I think I'm taking after Mak a little too much. It's hard not to XD

Because Spike has barely done anything! He'll probably slip under the radar just like that because we're too busy dealing with active problems to deal with the quieter ones.

Also, I shouldn't need to point this out, but just in case someone gets a bright idea.

Do not vote for Trigger!!! We've got a Soft Lynch going and we gain nothing by hammering him, so don't do it. At this point, we've got Trigger locked down so start looking at other people. If you've got a suspicion, build a case on it. Mak has a good point when he's telling us make your own cases, throw your ideas out there and so what if they're ignored? Get them out there now while we've got plenty of time and theoretically, vote safety so use it while we've got it. If you can turn up a convincing case on someone else that we might be able to bag a Mafia. You never know what you might spot that everyone else missed.

So, anyone want to make our lives easier and own up to being Mafia? Anyone, anyone?

Nope, okay. Now then, I suppose we get down to the voting.

##Vote: Moksha

Sorry, attention span failure.

I've been looking back at the thread and the replies to try and go through what Mak and other people have said to give the ideas that they have and I have to ask this:

Does anyone think that Hyuge has a habit of intentionally contradicting and discrediting Makaze at every turn? I've gone back through the thread to look at this in more detail and I've come across all this:

Some parts of that are pretty innocent, just calling out on poor manners which is fair enough. I don't know... It just feels wrong to me that there's just so much targeted contradiction. It seems actively directed to me. I don't think that makes her any more/less suspicious in my mind, but it does make me wonder if there's a discrediting job going on or if there's just legitimate concerns and ideas. Mak has said easily the most out of everyone in this thread and comes up with a lot of ideas, but I can't help but think that there's an element of something else. Make of all that what you will.

I don't know what to make of this. Not everyone is like me and starts drawing swords as soon as I feel attacked, but equally it's casual and frankly looks a little mocking to me. It is a Day 1 accusation which is basically the one time where you can be flippant about Mafia accusations, so perhaps that's justified.

Make what you wish of that everyone. If you've any thoughts on it, reading that, please mention it. I'm really not sure what to make of it but I just feel like something is wrong.

1. One of the others is Mafia and they want to ensure I don't vote for that person last. (Doesn't make sense unless you know something we don't. Must be Mafia.)
2. They believe that killing The Fuk? is more important than gathering information. (Doesn't make sense unless you know something we don't. Must be Mafia.)
3. They want to throw a wrench in my plan, for example, to make us think that one of the others is Mafia when they are not. No matter what we make of it, it ensures that we do not get as much info as we could have. (Doesn't make sense for town. Must be Mafia.)

I follow your logic. Trigger's behaviour does seem off. Throwing in my lot behind you here Mak. I mean, there's not much to add because well, you explained it all rather nicely.

##Vote: Trigger

I'm not entirely sure on what the deal with the case on Mish though is Mak. To be honest, you've lost me a bit here. If there was something from the previous day that I've totally forgotten I'm sorry, but I'm just a bit lost with that there.

Are we waiting for everyone to post before we proceed or something?

I agree with what's been said. Trigger's behaviour is... Odd. I don't see what the point in voting The Fuk? at the end was because it was obvious the lynch would have succeeded. Had anybody actually changed their vote, then they'd be on the chopping block for today. So, there's the chance that it's someone under pressure. To me, that's the most likely explanation because as Calxiyn and a couple of other people have pointed out, it's a bit careless to change your vote last minute because that would make you the obvious target for suspicion. Which was what is happening now.

Although one has to ask, why did he bother? The lynch was going to go through. He says it's so the lynch would go on despite Mak's hypothetical last minute vote switch and he didn't want that to happen because the idea of Makaze having almost total control over the town's voting is bad. In fairness, the idea of one very vulnerable person dying controlling the town's decision making isn't great, but the fact that he would so pointlessly try to contradict it at that time as well just doesn't seem right. For a Mafia it's careless, for a Townie it's also pretty careless not to mention counter productive.

Not to mention the fact that it would cause a Tie Vote if my maths on the subject turned out correctly. In this instance, Makaze would have won out anyway because of the tie vote rule which states that the person most recently voted for out of the ties is the one lynched. I'm confused. To quote (To the best of my memory) L:

"This situation is so stupid, I'm not really sure how to handle it."

If there's a couple of mathematical errors, please forgive me because at the moment I'm a bit confused as to the vote totals. In any case, there's all my thoughts on the case of this rather strange behaviour.

I do actually want to consider what has been said about Makaze's seeming control over the town though. He's confirmed, which means it's fairly risk free for us to follow him in terms of being led on by the Mafia, however as someone has pointed out, the Jailer likely locked him up tonight to protect him from a Day One death. I would assume they would like him dead because Mak is an outspoken and active player and losing him would be very, very bad for the town (Logical skills and leadership lost). Which therefore suggests that they may try and kill him tonight and get him out the way early. It'll allow the Mafia to have a less powerful Town against them because we've lost a valuable member and then it'll leave it open for them to step up to the leadership plate. The problem with them killing Mak is, you can't even read into his death. I believe that there is usually at least beyond the first night a logical reason to Mafia kills. As a result, we can possibly make a conclusion that a certain person was accused based on something they said on a day or previous day. Mak doesn't allow us this. He's such a blindingly obvious target why wouldn't you kill him? That's part of the problem. I don't have any thoughts on tale_wind being killed other than it was a reasonably valuable kill that wasn't condemning. I don't think that Tale made any significant accusations that would make him a particularly good target, but he kept a reasonable post count. This kill I think is just a somewhat directed kill to remove a reasonable player.

Anyhow, I just went on a tangent about kill theories when I was trying to talk about the Makaze leadership issue that seems to have expressed. I can see why it could be a problem, but for the moment I think if we listen and make use of him while he's around (because we have no idea how long he's going to stay that way) then that works out for us alright. That said, we do need independence to form our own ideas and theories. I remember I think it was Marushi (at least someone) made a point that Mak seemed to discard other people's theories because they weren't his own (If I remember rightly Marushi actually did mention this on Page 13 Post #256). I don't know how well that holds up, although I think that's something to bear in mind. We're all going to have different takes on the situation at hand one way or another and our best shot it seems to me is rather than sheep Makaze (Even though he's usually got a good plan and idea, so following where appropriate? Then we get back to the problem that we're all sheeping because he's logical and it makes sense to... Ugh, complicated problems!), we should operate with at least a modicum of personal independence and present our theories in a somewhat equal fashion, look at what it is presented and then come to a general consensus/agreement with the matter.

I realise that we've probably all come to the same conclusion, that or simply haven't decided to address it yet, but I felt like someone should throw down a few ideas on the subject and I'd actually like to contribute something to get people's heads working, so there you go. Feel free to offer any agreements/disagreements and other opinions on what I've said here.

Also, I'd like to apologise if I've mis-attributed ideas to people because I got confused about who said what a couple of times when writing this.

That tells me everything I need to know right there XD

Very well. I get the impression I've got a lot to learn about your modus operandi Mak. It's a little... Unique I'll say that much. You seem to be quite a bit more aggressive in your questioning and ideas in comparison to others players. Were you not confirmed town then I expect that people would be arguing with you a lot more than they are now.

Satoya High School



She gave Beucette a confused glance, cocking her head.
"You're weird lady." She said blunty, flipping her hair and facing Dale as he spoke.

"Well." She began, casually shaking her hair out of her face as she spoke. "She got possessed by a Fox spirit, and now she's at home."



It occured to Dale that really, she had no idea of the gravity of the situation. She was handling this as if it was just a normal everyday thing. People didn't usually get possessed by spirits, so maybe she didn't quite get it, or she was just a very nonchalant person and took everything with the same casual apparent lack of care. Sometimes he really couldn't understand people. Had it been someone in the guild he would have handled this far more seriously. But no, not Kiyomi. Strange girl.
"You also said your friend was doing strange things like jumping on the table and eating sand. Did she doing anything else... Odd?" He inquired.



She scratched her chin and hummed, frowning. Clearly she was in thought.
"Oh yeah! There was the time she jumped into the swimming pool with her uniform on! That was weird, and it was like, really cold that day too!" She recounted conversationally.



Dale groaned. He wished she took this more seriously and didn't sound like she was just talking to her friends about something everyday. Next thing you knew she'd be talking about boys and inviting the guild members out to hit the market with her and her undoubtedly weird friends. Maybe strange Fox girl would come and then they could solve this.
"Your friend- Has she hurt anyone?" He leaned forwards intently, his gaze trying to force an answer out of her. But of course, it made no difference and she still answered in the same chatty way.



"Hurt anyone? No not really. She just acts weird and creeps people out that's all. Never hurt a soul in her life!" She kicked her legs under the table and smiled, casually tugging a lock of her. She examined Beucette with childlike curiosity, but then turned her gaze back to Dale. "Anything else?" She cocked her head to the side and smiled at Dale closing her eyes happily with another happy hum.



Dale returned the smile the best he could and gave her the closing eyes gesture back. Then, he looked to the group and waved his arm at them vaguely.
"Does anyone else have a question for Miss Kiyomi here?" Dale asked, suppressing the irritated growl lurking at the back of his throat. She was so... Annoyingly casual about all this. Wasn't her friend being possessed a serious thing? You'd think she wouldn't do her silly hum and smile at this time! Or fidget!

Child's Play



"This is Minnie!" She declared excitedly, holding the doll up towards them in both hands with all the happiness in the world. The doll wore a red Victoria dress with a matching bow around her long blond curls that fell on to the pale face of the doll. She smiled widely at them, making her the very essence of cuteness, her eyes sparkling and wide open.



"Elayne, are you enjoying your new book?" Zarine asked, leaning down and smiling like a mother.



Elayne froze in place. A wave of fear came over her joyful face and her smile fell, her mouth shutting tight and quivering as she clutched the doll close to her, hugging it to her chest with eyes wide open. She turned a deathly pale and her knees began to quiver.
"Um..." She stuttered.



Caliborn frowned. Something's wrong. The very mention of that book... He wiped the expression of his face and put on his smile again and got down on to one knee, placing one hand on the ground to keep himself steady.
"Elayne, why don't you eat some of the food Zarine's brought you?" He asked softly, taking care to tread most carefully in this situation. He hadn't seen Elayne like this before. Nervous yes, but never the visage of abject terror that he could see before him now.



"I- I- I'mnothungry." She stammered, looking at her feet and evidently trying to clutch the doll harder. Her eyes clamped shut and she fell silent, staring with closed eyes at the floor most intently.



"Let's go downstairs for a while." Caliborn decided loudly, so that Siuan could hear. They needed to get together and try and understand what was happening. Whatever it is. What is it that's terrifying her? Is it that book? At the mention of it... Something wasn't right, that was evident. They needed to talk. Maybe someone here had some ideas on it. He wasn't entirely sure himself what was happening, but as a group with Zarine and maybe Siuan they could figure something out. For the moment however, it was time to retreat from the room. He led them down the curving wooden stairs into the spacious living room. The room was very familiar to him. They had three couches in here and then a couple of single seats there as well. Caliborn took his usual seat that faced the couches. Zarine promptly took another single seat to his right, while Siuan and Elayne took a couch together, although Elayne clutched the doll and drew her knees up to her arms.

Once everyone had filed in and seated themselves, he drew his hand into a pocket inside his coat and withdrew a glowing, luminescent white ball. He held it in one hand and glanced at everyone in the room. Thanks Cassandra. You always had an eye for what would be useful.
"At the guild. Cassandra made this especially for the mission." Caliborn began. "We are going to use this to test for ghosts, or something that might give us a clue. Now, I think we'll start with taking a look at you, Siuan, Zarine and Elayne. As this is your first job, the first chance you've got to actually do something, do any of you want to try using this device?"

Sorry if I missed the memo somewhere down the line, but is there any specific reason we're voting for Mish here? From what I can tell there's no explanation anywhere around here so I'm a bit confused at your motives here Mak. I'm just confused because this:

Says nothing about voting for Mish. What do we gain by bringing her up from 1 vote to 2? I know that we've got the plan of bringing people to three votes in the case of a sneaky end of the day lynch, but beyond that I've got no idea. Unless what you're trying to do is control exactly where everyone's votes are so we notice someone consolidating... But then... Someone could switch votes but then that would an obvious tell. You've confused the daylights out of me here Mak. My only conclusion is you want to know precisely where everyone is voting so it's easy to tell if someone switches.

So Mak, just to confirm this: The plan now is just to leave the situation as it is until the day is done? We lynch The Fuk? for being generally not helpful and then see the result of that and wait for the night's killing to be done?

Maru my qualms with Mak are gone since he clarified what Nova was talking about. I got confused. That was a mistake on my part.

I can't leave the points made here unanswered/unchallenged, as such:

On me getting defensive:
This is a natural reaction for me. I don't like being accused because that to me, is the same as being attacked. I will therefore raise my defenses and prepare to fight back. This is the way I am and furthermore- I don't want to get killed in the first two days. As I'm sure most people would not. I disagree with your sentiment that because I dared to ask Mish why I he thought I was suspicious exactly that I am suspect. This entire day has been asking people what people think and why. I wanted an explanation for his reasons and I'm sure had I not asked, someone else would have. You can't just make an accusation pointlessly in this game. That has been treated with nothing but disdain so far and I don't plan to treat essentially baseless accusations against myself any differently for fear of being classed as suspicious in an honest attempt to figure out why they have that opinion of me.

On unvoting The Fuk?/Voting Spike:
I accepted the point of this: Nobody has a good reason yet. There is very little to go off. I also applied the basic principle that Day 1 voting is to try and pressure the player into posting and showing a reaction up until this current point where we are trying to achieve a consensus on who to lynch. I got my reaction, further pressure seemed pointless because with his answer of this:

What else am I going to get by pressing him further? At least with Mish I could try and identify what exactly gave him his ideas on myself and the other two. There is nothing more to be gained by holding my vote on him when at the time, I could have pressured Spike. I hadn't even realised that Hyuge was voting for him. That's a totally irrelevant point.

Policy lynches on inactives was suggested. I followed this policy by voting Spike.

I should also add the case against Hyuge was pretty poor. Mish's case against me wasn't much to speak of either. He said I was defensive, and that he didn't know me. In fact, I would suggest that none of you have seen me play this and as I said, I'm naturally defensive. I dislike being confronted with a threat and this situation classifies in my mind as one.

There is my logic presented to you.

None of us really have substantial reasoning other than inactivity and hunches based on early game behaviour that really doesn't tell too much, at least to me. Some experienced players might get reads off small stuff that is basically meaningless to most people (Or they think they read something), but that's it. I can't justify my case on anything other than "He's not very active so lynch".

That post of Nova's when Mak said the fact that he was town is confirmed really, really set me on edge. I know it says that his role is unquestionably town, but still... I don't know whether Nova was messing with Mak or not so I'm a little on edge about that. I feel like it wouldn't have been said if it didn't bear some significance. I mean, we have to go off what was stated in the OP, but that comment still rubbed me the wrong way so... I'm a little uneasy. Can someone actually confirm whether that was Nova being serious about Mak's 'unquestionable town' status being uncertain? That contradiction really confused me.

Or perhaps they agree with your logic and are willing to follow because it makes sense to them. I don't think that anyone here lacks the confidence to make their own decisions. You put a compelling case out and as such, people will follow. Also, here's another thought to bear in mind, also relating to your role.

Would following you not be a good idea for the Mafia? You are 'unquestionably town' according to the OP so I can't help but wonder whether this is perhaps the case. It would be quite easy to hide behind the person that is definitely town because then they'd be adhering to the town's goals. It's probably already been considered and it's probably also of limited use, but just food for thought for everyone that we can keep in mind for the days to come.