Okay, so we have Brexen and Pezz in the middle of a literature joust. First off, I'll mix both of your ideas : Pezz says all Elements can have SOS, and Brexen says all Elements have Will. But those things are very similar. Not identical, but still. You know who you are, and stick to it = SOS You know what you want, and stick to it = Will Now, listen, both of you. Before I go on, consider what I just wrote. Since the SOS and the Will are so similar, maybe you can both rethink your ideas. Try to think what happens if you replace the Will with the SOS. Rethink your ideas by doing this. Do you like the new result? In case you do, then there's no need to argue here. We can just settle with a happy medium. If you really want to keep your ideas as is, then allow me to continue. You both have great ideas. At first thought, I'm inclined to agree with Pezz. If we say that something other than the Heart has Will, then we must change the entire Desoul idea. A Desoul means that the Soul feeds on the Heart's Will. Why would he do that when the Soul and Body have Will? But, things don't stop here. Interesting point, but not yet complete. "If the Soul could exist without a Body or Heart"... I'm not sure what you mean by that, since it can't exist without them. Not in the realm of the living, at least. What you did say about the Soul, alone, actually applies to the Heart. The Heart can survive alone, because it has Will, and will thus do anything to live. Even create a fake Body out of darkness, becoming a Heartless. You say everything needs a Will, and I gotta admit that makes sense. How can Organization XIII WANT anything without a Will? This is a tricky question, but I got the answer : Nobodies don't exist. If you don't exist, but can still walk and fight and think, then you are special... and I told myself you must've "borrowed" something. Ironically, we can link this to your ideas of Thron(e?)s, Brexen. But that's another story. Feel free to think about it. What that "something" is, well, it could be a reminescence of your Heart's Will. As Pezz pointed out, Nobodies rely on Memories. Therefore, what you "borrowed" is in fact simply Memories. To use them, all you need is a mind ; a Soul. So, simply put, Nobodies don't have a Will per se, but they remember their previous self's Will. You and your cousin had great ideas, too. The Hearts of Kingdom Hearts "radiate" Will? That's perfect! Many Nobodies have their Hearts inside KH, while the others might eventually have their Hearts go there. That's one of the many reasons they live in TWTNW. They are closer to what keeps them "alive", even though they don't exist. "That fool Ansem said the Heart's true nature was beyond his understanding. But it's not beyond mine! Hearts are the Source of all Power!" Well, Power, no matter now exactly we define it, does come from the Heart. But that's not the whole story. True power, the greatest power, comes from something that neither Ansem nor Xehanort could see. It comes from Life ; from the UNION of all Elements. Think of Sora. His determination, feelings, and sense of justice, all coming from the Heart, are his "true power". But what could he do without a Body? The Body is essential in this universe. As for the Soul, well, that's a little more complex. I would venture saying that the Soul is the most determining part of someone ; the most individual part. A Heart comes and goes. A Soul comes once, and goes once. Not coming back. Not unless we open that Realm of the Dead discussion again. Now, let's link this to your argument. The Heart is strong, and has a Will, because it can survive on its own, and reincarnate in another being. The Body and Soul can't do that, because the moment they separate, life ends. The Heart can live on its own, but not the other Elements. Even Nobodies have the little issue of not existing. Being a Nobody is a truly sad story ; no feelings, need to borrow what you need to keep "existing"... all this because the Heart left. That's why I say that only a Heart has Will. Finally, think of real life. How many people want to live their lives again? How many religions think of reincarnation, of afterlife, and so on? Back to the KHU, countless Souls (in this case, human minds) want to continue living after death, but only the Heart can do that. No matter how much we desire reliving our lives, it won't suffice ; only the Heart can do that. Therefore, my personnal conclusion is that Will is in the Heart, because it is the one that can do the most amazing things. If the Soul had a Will, maybe, just maybe, it could use it to follow the Heart, and leave the Body behind. But that never happens. The closest thing to that is probably the Nobody, which, as I postulated, needs to "borrow" a Will in order to live out of existence. I'll stop here, because I just shattered my resolution to keep things simple. Suffice to say that I like both your ideas, and I'm myself saddened by the fact they contradict each other.
Lilo and Stitch is a definite yes. After all, Stitch was a summon. Having him become a Party member will make him similar to Simba from KH1 to KH2. Also, I just figured out a way to include The Sword and the Stone. Hopefully it's not too long to read. Riku would be the first to arrive. He will explore the world, without seeking to make friends or anything. But, as he asks to someone is they's seen "a young boy, slighty immature?", he'll receive information about the young King Arthur. If I undersand the story, he was named Wart at the time. I'll assume that's true. So, Riku will learn about Wart, but, more importantly, about a "powerful sword" in a rock. He'll think that's a Keyblade, and thus try to see it, without meddling too much in the world's affairs. He'll find out it's just an "ordinary" sword, but he'll meet Corruption while at it. This will be Corruption's (or someone's else, but I thought of him) first appearance. He too thought it was a Keyblade in the Stone, but as he meets Riku, both their plans change, for they learn of the existence of other Keybladers. Kairi would be secodn to come. With her benevolent attitude, she'll encourage Wart to accomplish his destiny or whatever and pull the Sword out of the Stone. Again, I'm not too familiar with the story, so criticisim is needed. But since King Arthur was named "Wart", I can safely assume he's not too confident. So having Kairi encourage him will be good for him. The Keyhole that Kairi seeks to move through the world will be in the hole that the Sword leaves, upon being pulled out of the Stone. Kairi will then leave. Finally, Sora would come in last, talk to everybody, and get himself involved. Hey, you can't blame him ; when he talks to Wart and learns that Kariri guided him, they'll stick together. Then, he can, as always, help defeat the evil of that world. What is it? Hell if I know. My knowledge on the King Arthur Disney world comes from a kids show I saw more than 10 years ago. And we have all 3 characters, a nice place to hide Kairi's Keyhole, a new Keyblader making his first appearance, Sora, Kairi and Riku staying in their character's personalities, a Disney World done, and a cherry on top. Finally, about Lilo and Stitch : I just realised that their world would be very similar to Destiny Islands. This will surely be useful. I already see Kairi and Lilo becoming friends.
I'm personally a bit torn between them. Devive comes from Revive, which suits perfectly this kind of Desoul. But Devines sound awesome as well, especially if we talk about how they seek divine power or something like that. I'm not sure. Dieties aren't in the Kingdom Hearts Universe (except fro Olympus Coliseum). We can still play around with this idea.
I too agree with the name "Ember". And in order to make the symbolic slightly more obvious, the Ember's "candle" (on top of their head) must really give the impression of a candle. Remember that Desoul drawing Pezz did? So that would be an Ember. Notice the "candle" that sticks out of his head. It's green, like his body. I suggest that we change the color of the candle's "flame" to purple, just like the Desoul's eyes. Therefore, the Emebr would be green, have a green ting sticking out of its head, that ends up with a purple flame. It doesn't need to be a real flame ; it could just be the shape of a flame. I think this would make the symbolic more obvious, as well as make Embers more colorful. It looks great when I imagine it. What about you? About lilbueno's ideas : Devives, or Devines, are they really stronger? Pezz suggested that no, but I think they would. Yes, it is made out of compatible elements that blindly work together, but a normal Desoul is pretty much the same thing. Its elements ARE messed up already, but the major difference, compared to a Devive, is that its Elements are from the same person. Since the Desouls are strong (stronger than Heartless and Nobodies, right?), it means that having messed up Elements isn't that much of a problem. So Devives can be stronger than ordiary Desouls. I don't like the idea of an organization leading the Desouls. Not only it's repetitive with KH2, but we also thought of Xehanort being the big bad guy, and I dont' think we ever pictured him having friends. Only manipulationg Corruption and Despair. Last but not least, even if Devives have one or mroe counterparts, can they really meet them? Can the Elements reckognize their original complements? If so, which should be the case, then it indeed means that the Devives will be attracted by their coutnerparts.
A while ago, I gave the idea of pulling a Keyblade out of the Stone in the Sword and the Stone. At first, I intended the Keyblade to be for Kairi, but that was before we thought of the new Keybladers. Now that we settled on ideas for sveral new Keybladers, maybe one could get his trsuted Key out of that Stone. However, that would mean we must modify the original Sword and the Stone story, with which, unfortunately, I'm not too familiar. What do you all think? Also, for the reports, it's coming. Pezz, I just sent you a prototype of the first, but your own ideas for the first report are awesome. Hope you don't mind me posting the reports we thought of yet : Pezz's protoype : Aaah! Stupid me! Hey Pezz, I sent you my idea for the first report, but neglected to keep a copy for myself. Mind if you post it for me?
Most favorite : Dark Thorn & Shadow Stalker Least favorite : The Experiment (does it count?) Dark Thorn & Shadow Stalker were pretty original, and the fight was impressive for something this early in the game. As for the Experiment, it really felt like an out-of-place battle. I do agree that it went noice with the stroyline and the story, but the battle was dissapointing.
Everyone, there's a problem with the Wiki. For some reason the Navigation is broken ; it won't show anything but the Home page. I'm not sure what happened ; the Recent Changes showed someone modifying that page, making it include an "include page list" script. I assume that must show all the pages, but it doesn't work for some reason. I added all the pages manually, but if you click on Edit Navigation, you'll see that something is strange. If anyone knows what's wrong, help is welcome.
You are absolutely right... We weren't many people at first, and that's why we bombed ideas in huge essays. Seriously, one text was longer than the dissertation I handed in the same day. However, that's why we put up a Wiki page, that keeps things much simpler. Unless that too is too complex, you can try going there : kh3-kh-vids-style.wikispaces.com
The Wiki Page : kh3-kh-vids-style.wikispaces.com It's also in Pezz and my signatures.
The Unknown Soul's Reports? Another's Reports? Master Reports? Anyway. Xehanort disguising himself as DiZ? When exactly, "at the beginning"? Remember that DiZ/Ansem is dead, so his appearance WILL arise suspicion. Especially from Mickey and Riku, who won't take too long to realise it isn't him. I'll start thinking of the Reports. I suggest that we each do the first one (if you're interested in doing so, of course), then compare. It will be useful, because we'll gather ideas from several people, and then put them together. Also, the Report itself will have several writing styles in it, making it more mysterious for the sharp-eyed player. Oh, and as for Xemnas saying he doesn't remember any feeling except Hate and Anger, you just brought a new solid argument to the Xehanort = Terra theory. Remember what Terra said after fighting him, how he only has his hatred for (Master) Xehanort left. Finally, even if we do gain a lot by ridiculously tremendous posts, remember that it discourages people from reading them. Not everyone likes reading long posts, and those who do might give up if they don't understand. That's why the Wiki is so useful. It's much more simple.
I can't see it on this picture... although I could clearly see it in-game. You got me wrong. I was actually talking about a previous thing. I said that Nobodies DO remember their previous life, but Xemnas said that he doesn't. Yet I think he just lied. You must've skipped a sentence while reading that... Before the second Armor Xemnas fight, he doesn't say anything ; he just looks up to Sora and Riku. In Final Mix, Sora quickly mentions how he couldn't say "thank you" to Naminé for restoring his memories, and Riku says that once they finish their job, he can talk to her all he wants. Will power has nothing do to with it? I disagree. If you are tortured, than your will decides how long you last. Of course, this isn't a perfect example, since the objective of torture is to break you. However, think of ordinary life troubles. Not everyone makes it through their life with only minor obstacles along the way. When your life is a living hell, and every day is a battle which you gain nothign by winning, your SOS will be shaken. You can just as easily become broken because of your life. In this case, will plays a major role, because the more powerful it is, the longer you can last. Contrary to physical torture, a bad phase in life shoud end eventually, and if your will lasted through all that, then you'll recover. Will is something real. It may not have matter, or be edible by Desouls in real life, but it does exist. I agree. We're gathering a lot of info about Xehanort. Sorry! I guess we're both getting carried away here. Must. Keep. Simple. Lol. True, but lol.
1. For Xehanort : I've been thinking that when a Heartless (with a corresponding Nobody) is defeated, the Heart stays in Kingdom Hearts for quite a while, until the Nobody is defeated as well. How long, well it depends, but it should technially be long, considering that only Sora was fighting the Nobodies. However, if Xehanort's Heartless was really "defeated" in KH2, when Ansem used his Heart encoder on Kingdom Hearts, then it means somethign interesting : Xehanort's Heart did not stay inKh for very long. Soon after it joined KH, Xemnas was defeated. The reason why Roxas is such a special Nobody (ignoring any possible connections with Ven) is becasue Sora stood very little time as a Heartless. A similar thing could happen to Xehanort. His Heart, having been in KH for such a short while, did "something". What this "something" is, it's up for grabs. It can mean that Xehanort's desire for knowledge wasn't shaken by all what happened. It can mean that Xehanort's SOS was, on the contrary, changed, because his Heart lived a slightly different adventure. Also, Kme92 is right when he says Xehanrot can lose his SOS and become a Desoul. He may not do so on purpose, but as Pezz said, he will be so obsessed with power that it will eventually happen. 2. For the Disney worlds (random thinking below) Since KH1 and KH2 used many worlds, some in both games, we're more limited this time around. Even if there are countless shows/movies/stories about, say, Agrabah and Alladin, we can't have him come back every game. It will get old. So thus, we need new worlds, indeed. Still, some of the old world can still make it. Olympus Coliseum, for example, is pretty much part of the KHU. I'd like to mention something too : our story for this KH game is quite dark and distant from the previous KH installements. As the series go on, things get mroe serious, more technical, and more dark. At the same time, the fanbase is also maturing ; all young kids who played KH1 are becoming teenagers, once-teenagers become adults, etc., so this this new story style is more appealing now. Because of this, Disney Worlds are losing importance. What Pezz said about the Sword and the Stone still had several elements of great importance ; he mentionned how the story revolved about knowing who you are, which is an important theme in life, and more serious than most of the Disney themes. With the Desouls around, we're also putting an emphasis on those "life lessons". 3. Question : Does anyone know what happens to memories in the KHU? I mean, when you become a Nobody, you remember your past life (except Roxas. And for some reason, Xemnas said that at the end of KH2, although I think it was a lie). When you become a weak shadow Heartless, you forget things, because you are but a shadow without thinking capacities. And when you are revived? Will you remember what you lived as a Nobody, but not as a Heartless? What about a strong Heartless, such as Xehanort? He's the one we're curious about, after all. I'd say that his Heartless should've kept its memories, and his Nobody as well. So therefore, now that he's restored, he has two alternate lives in his memories. What do you think of this? Do you agree? Should a strong Heartless remember everything, etc? If it does, then Xehanort's little aventure will only inspire him to go further into his research. If I would suddenly realise I remember the life of another person as well as mine, and that I can compare all events that occured from two perspectives, I would be inspired as well. And what about a Desoul? Does it remember anything? With the loss of SOS, however, it doesn't matter much. If it lost its SOS because of something that happenes, the Desoul will only be interested in that one thing that happened. So it can just as well forget everything else.
Well, I don't really mind if this idea doesn't get too far, but I would really like it if we get something out of it. Like, a legend of a certain word, or something. Imagining a heart-shaped moon solar eclipse looks awesome in my head, but there's the issue that Kingdom Hearts isn't exactly a heart-shaped moon. It's more than that, since it's the gathering of Hearts. Therefore, physical explanations, as you said, aren't well-placed. I didn't imagine KH gravitating around the world either ; that was a blind suggestion :) Well, if everyone agrees, I'll put the eclipse idea on hold. Maybe we'll find a good use for it later. Now, I got a little question about Xehanort. What's he gonna look like? I can't stop imagining Master Xehanort, but that can't be, because the young one is supposed to have come back. So, is he going to look like in KH2's pre-1000 Heartless cutscene? With, of course, some Desoul-themed clothes instead of a lab coat?
I'm thinking of epic win. They all are awesome. We could settle with those for the moment, while still giving out ideas, should they arise. While you mentionned in the group talk that the names aren't related to the "element" of the Keybladers (Blaze, for example, won't be a pyromaniac), we must at least give them one attack reminescent of what they represent. Otherwise we'll just waste pontential. I'm thinking of fans saying "This is Blaze, the fiery Keyblader with no fire attacks whatsoever". So I suggest we have Blaze use... Blaze Storm or something like that. Oriens could use an attack like Sunrise Flash... etc. *glows at imagining a solar eclipse with a heart-shaped moon. What if we incorporate this? The Keyblader Eclipse would most likely have no link with what I propose, but it made me think of new things. Here I go : An ecplise is pretty much a temporary sunset. If The World Ends At Sunset has BOTH a Moon (purple KH) and a Sun, then it could preriodically have eclipses. The sun stays at the same place in that world, but there's no reason Kingdom Hearts won't move. If it can move through hyperspace to find its uncorrupted counterpart, then it can definitely "gravitate" around TWEAS (The World Ends At Sunset). What would this mean? Perhaps that whenever an eclipse occurs, the world enter a semi-dead state, causing all Desouls to go wild, and thus attack the rest of the universe. Or, alternatively, there could be only one eclipse, which indeed gave the Desouls the power to devastate the universe. Thinking that their time had come, they decided to attack, now or never, and succeeded in leaving their world. The Eclipse turned out harmless to the Desouls, but it set them on the loose. Finally, maybe an eclipse can occur while the player is on TWEAS. Just prior to fighting Xehanort? And during the fight as well? Oh, or here's something! We originally planned Xehanort to tell Sora, once he was "defeated", that the world ends at sunset, and point to the setting sun. But what if we mention, at some point of the game, that the sun CANNOT go below the horizon? Like : "It always stays up at noon, but at sunset, the world ends. However, since the sun cannot go below the horizon, this will never be." The players would imagine that the world cannot be destroyed, or try thinking of ways to do so. How can this be, if the sun can't move? But, while fighting Xehanort, the catastrophic phenomenon will occur. As Xehanort loses life, instead of changing form like the Desouls, the world will change form. This was already decided. The terrain becomes more erratic, the environment more repulsive, etc. My new idea is that the sunlight must dim as well (the battle must take place outside). I'm sure everyone imagined this as part of the world becoming uglier, but did we consider the symbolic it represents? The sun is like the world's "candle", and represents the Desoul's life. As the fight continues, the purple Kingdom Hearts will slowly close on the sun, covering it slowly, thus explaining why the light dims. But the player won't notice this unless it intentionally looks at the sun, probably with the FPS button (if we're talking about a 3D game). Remember that other Thread where we were talking about te black moon carefully hidden behind the KH door, in the first KH game? This would be a similar thing. The player can find this "easter egg" if he's curious enough... Finally, instead of having Xehanort pointing the horizon, he will obviously point up, towards the sun. When Sora looks, he will realise what happened, and the sun will then become fully covered. And any player re-doing that Xehanort battle will then take the time to check the sun, seeing for him/herself what happens. If you have trouble imagining this, think of KH1's first Ansem battle, on the ruined Destiny Islands. You're on the freaky beach, with Donald and Goofy, all beating the crap outta Ansem and his guardian. Now, apply the Desoul world context. Imagine the beach becoming uglier as Ansem loses life, and the light becoming darker. You probably won't pay much attention to this in-game, because you're too concentrated on the fight. But if you actually press Select and look at the sun, then imagine you can see a Heart-shaped moon approaching, the covering the sun. This would look freaky, but unbelievably awesome, in my opinion. This is StarSeeker99, signing off. P.S. : Sorry for not being around lately. As you may have all read, my school schedule is of sadist nature. I often work on schoolwork from the moment I get home to midnight, so I had little time for myself lately, let alone the Desoul topic. I'm doing my best to give ideas and manage the Wiki once in a while, don't worry.
We're doing this for fun. Making a game for real isn't something we can really plan right now anyway. We know this won't become the official KH3, but we let our creativity loose and created something we find nice. It's always fun to do this.
I like it. Works perfect with our idea of bosses having several phases with different appearances. You're getting to something with this. I think I'll apply this to the DeHero Desoul I invented. Instead of immediately looking like a Desoul Sora, the DeHero would first look like a cloaked dude. Once his health goes down, his cloak will burn, as you said, and then it's true appearance, a deformed Sora, would show up. Do you mind if I use your idea for this?
I thought of this as well. Actually making the game sounds a bit like... pure hell right now. I am busy enough as is, and sometimes have trouble keeping up with the Desoul discussions to begin with. Of course we have the summer vacation approaching, but we'd need to be pretty determined to finish everything in that time. Furthermore, I am no programmer, despite basic knowledge (basic as the word "basic", not the computer language). And no, I'm no musician... sorta. I like music, and I know I made some awesome music on computer, long ago. It was on a different system, so I need to see which programs work on the one I currently have. And finally, there's the time constraint. As interesting as the Desouls are, we'd need to make quite some sacrifices to really make a game. I'm not saying it won't happen, but we'll have to see. It's not something I want to discuss when I spent 8 hours on schoolwork just prior to coming here :ranting: However... there is the fact that I've been spending a lot of my "free" time (as in "walking to my bus", etc) thinking about a KH-style game, and ever possible aspect of it. If we do decide to make a game, believe me, I'll have countless ideas to give for pretty much everything ;) So, back on topic. Corruption and Despair. Hm... real names... anagrams! Let's have fun with those. C O R R U P T I O N - Torrupcion - Runoticrop - Nirucrotop - Orptuincro Okay, he's a toughie. All names sound strange. I wonder if there are two words which can be made with Corruption's letters. DESPAIR - Ridespa - Pasride - ->Paradise<- It has does have an extra "A"... still ironic, huh? It could make "A Despair". - Pardise. Similar to "paradise", only it's a real anagram. Furthermore its pronunciation is very similar to "paradise", which will make people think, and probably realise our ruse. Corruption : I abstain from voting... for now. Despair : I vote for "Pardise". What do you all think? EDIT : New ideas! Thinking of this game while on the bus is quite effective. About the story : I suggest Chip and Dale arrive AFTER Sora reads Mickey's letter. This means that they'll have a few days to prepare. And this means that they can change clothes. If the story takes up immedaitely after KH2, then changing clothes isn't really necessary, but it becomes if we let a few months pass. I thought of Sora wearing full-lenght pants (because hos pants already got longer in KH2, so they'll do it again). As for his shirt, probably still the same style. Riku could follow the "classinc video game right arm law". What is this? It's an observation I made. Male characters tend to have less "things" on their right hands. For example, they'll have no sleeves on the right hand, and a short one on the left. Probably to better swing their weapons, assuming they're right-handed. So, I thought Riku could follow this rule. Ven and Terra do so as well. Kairi must definitely wear pants too. Can't have a controllable character wear skirts in a KH-game, where aerial flips abound... That's it for the clothes. I also thought that Riku and Sora could take two Gummi ships, probably by leaving at different times. This would explain how they can crash at different places.
I have a question. What happens if two of us happen to edit a Wiki page at once? I can see it saves Drafts every minute or so. If we stay a few hours editing one page, and another person does it too, we might have huge problems. As in "one person did everything for nothing". I don't know if there's a way around this, but if there is, I would be nice to know.
We didn't?! Sorry! I personally adore it. Actually, I did say that I liked your idea of Xehanort saying to Sora "You forgot something... the world ends at sunset! *The sun sets* *Every gets teleported inside the purple KH*". Or did I? Anyway, I like it, and it keeps the trend of the final world having "world" in its name. I agree with Corruption and Despair realising what they've done when they get sent in the purple KH. Here's the scene as I pictured it : Xehanort : The world ended at sunset... and now, you'll all join it, for an eternal night! Corruption! Despair! Finish what you've started! *They hesistate, look at each other, and don't attack. They look at Xehanort, hatred brimming in their eyes.* Xehanort : You dare defy me?! Hm! I hoped you would be ready to see the magnificence of what you've helped me create. But it seems your frail Hearts cannot support such beauty. Corruption : Say what! You call THIS "magnificence"?! *points around them. I dunno what it's supposed to look like, but a Kingdom Hearts made out of incomplete Hearts is NOT a place I'd want to be* Despair : This is... horrible... what have we done?! No, I won't let this happen! Xehanort! You lied to us! You may have used us to do your dirty work, but you won't continue as long as one of us is still standing! End of scene By the way, I wondered about the music we should use. Of course, this isn't exactly our top priority right now. But I would like to make some music, if, of course, I can get my hands on a good program to make them. And anyway, this will probably have to wait... a long time.
That's what I meant. Heartless usually have two words, and Nobodies have one.
