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Your idea about Ven's heart being sent to Sora makes a lot of sense. I've thought about the possibilities since you proposed it.

Right before Baldy freezes Ven, a dark energy permeates Ven. I think this is something that Baldy was trying to do from the start. This dark energy, whether it's poisoning or sucking away, was his goal. This could be why Terra held Ven back at the beginning of the Birth by Sleep. It's only after this that Baldy summons the "Kingdom Hearts".

I thought that maybe this was when Ven lost his heart, and it was sent Sora. But of course, Ven's eyes are still moving after he's frozen. So no.

So what could that dark aura have done? It seems like something was taken from Ven, something that allowed Baldy to summon Kingdom Hearts. Baldy is able to transform his sword right after.

I'd love to talk about these type of attributes! We all understand that last of time and money caused these technical problems to be overlooked, but we can definitely discuss what most needed the extra attention most.

I know of the set up you're talking about. There could have been some nice touches in the neck muscles of the characters, during the tense moments.

The footprints probably disappeared from shot to shot, because the shots aren't integrated. Once the environment and basic character rigs are set up, each shot is sent to an animator. So if one animator (not that it would be the animator; the TD I guess) makes footsteps in one shot, it stays within that one shot. Am I explaining this well?

I noticed that weightlessness too! The moment where the tallest knight runs at Baldy, starting from the ground, is particularly an eyesore. Min: 1:57. The lack of character weight was the thing that bothered me the most. The keyblades looked very heavy, and there should have been a lot more strain and force when they were being swung. And as hard as the characters fall sometimes, there should be more follow through in the landings, especially when they land on their feet.

When viewing the video slower, the timing feels more natural in some parts. It makes me wonder if there was a place or two where they speed up an originally slower shot. I kind of doubt this would happen though. They should be following an animatic. *shrugs*

O_o! XD Don't get the fangirls started, please. I wouldn't be able to stop myself. :p

That reminds me of something ラクシーヌ said in Facts and Theory:
Sora: "Where do you think it is? the door to the light?"
Riku: *points to Sora's chest" "This, Its always closer than you think."

I was gone too, finishing finals. Were you sick?

Your timing is right. But it could have been that Riku couldn't use a keyblade when he was surrounded by so much darkness, since in Riku's case, darkness makes his heart weaker.

Couldn't his Dive into the Heart have been his fight with Xehanort in CoM? He didn't go into the Station of Serenity, but he did defeat the darkness in his heart.

Since I don't mind intruding, =) what are you two flirting about?

More information will be given at TGS, but that doesn't mean we have to put our ideas and theories on hold. Speculate just for the fun of it.

ラクシーヌ, you've pulled together a ton of sources. This post is a great resource for anyone.

You may or may not have been there, but a short time back there was a discussion on why Roxas is able to wield dual keyblades. The conclusion was that in addition to a link to Sora's heart and abilities, Xemnas gave his own ability to wield a keyblade to Roxas, and Roxas now has the ability to wield two. Xemnas may have had the ability himself, but once the (fake) Ansem was destroyed Xemnas no longer had a connection to an existing heart. (Your heart only had to exist, it didn't matter if it was in you, or consumed with darkness.) But a connection to Ven's heart could also explain the dual wielding. Roxas is pulling from Sora's heart and Ven's heart.

I really like the Terra/Xemnas image that you edited emphasizing the hair similarities. I think Axel stretching out his hand to Sora was meant to be a clue and reminder of Riku. Axel is saying "Do you remember this moment, the one where Riku reached out to you?"

I love your idea that Sora could become Kingdom Hearts. There's just something beautifully tragic if that happened. *fangirl moment* Or if we got to play Kairi and Riku. I would love that!

Thank you. I had taken the second meaning, not the first. So the person (A) who was healing their pains has already had some sort of contact with the person or people (B) that (A) is not supposed to return to.

Could it be Aqua and Xemnas, when they are both in the Room of Sleep? This would assume that Aqua's consciousness is in the Room of Sleep, not just her armor.

Could it talk about Axel and Roxas/Sora's friendship?

Could it be Aqua and Sora/Ven, where Aqua's conciousness is the voice that talks to Sora and Roxas, leading them through the trials in their hearts.

I wish they had just kept the Speculation section.

In the story Kairi's grandmother's tells, it sounds as if the original world was destroyed, "It (darkness) covered everything, and the world disappeared." Then was rebuilt, as the realm of light, "With these fragments of light, children rebuilt the lost world." And there's a possibility that the realm of darkness could be restored to what it originally was, "But the true light sleeps, deep within the darkness."

Does anyone feel that the last part of the story has been completely fulfilled? "But someday, a door to the innermost darkness will open."

We see Baldy summon the blue Kingdom Hearts, but we don't see him break it apart. So either there's something he's about to do that will break it, or simply removing the world's heart will cause it to break apart.

Baldy keyblade became energy when he summoned Kingdom Hearts, so I'm not sure what tools he has to break it apart. He may use Terra. Terra is about to use darkness (yellow eyes) and Baldy is smart enough that he might trick Terra into tearing the heart apart.

Maybe the heart was blue because it was dying. Or maybe there isn't enough energy in it to become yellow.

Yes! If Terra was from the original world, Xehanort could have an inherited desire to see the heart of that world whole again.

What if Baldy summoned the heart of the original world so that he could split it? That could have been a noble action if the world was dying. A chance for rebirth.

We're all thinking of Terra right now.

I had been wondering about that line. I see how you're interpreting the grammar. Thank you.

I can sort of see how the two look similar, though not strongly. The strongest reason that many people see them as being the same person is through relationships. I see Ven as a previous persona of Sora, and when I see the emotional interactions between Ven and Aqua, I wonder if it might interfere with Sora and Kairi's relationship. I don't see Kingdom Hearts as the type of story where the two main love interests would interfered with by another serious love interest (at least not blatantly), so there are two possibilities I would consider: 1) Ven and Aqua do not have a romantic relationship, or 2) Kairi is a persona of Aqua.

I want to give you support, because you're beginning to flesh out some ideas that I feel strongly about.

I think that's a very likely possibility, but it's already been explored very well.

Thanks for the repy. I'll check that out next time I play through there. The code from TGS 2006! Yeah, if Baldy had been their teacher, Terra's attitude towards Baldy could have been anger at the betryal. And you also suggested that Baldy's reaction/regret to harming Ven suggests that he could have been the boy's teacher.

They probably created him so that they could have a friend their own age. :D

I couldn’t find the interview that said “the kingdom hearts in the video isn't real”, and I don’t have a direct memory of reading it myself, so I’m no longer going to claim that that KH wasn't a real KH.

Thank you Saro, that's exactly what I was talking about! This is the story Kairi's Grandmother (or Nanny) tells Kairi in a Hollow Bastion flashback.

Long ago, people lived in peace, bathed in the warmth of light.
Everyone loved the light.
Then people began to fight over it. They wanted to keep it for themselves.
And darkness was born in their hearts.
The darkness spread, swallowing the light and many people's hearts.
It covered everything, and the world disappeared.
But small fragments of light survived...
in the hearts of children.
With these fragments of light, children rebuilt the lost world.
It's the world we live in now.
But the true light sleeps, deep within the darkness.
That's why the worlds are still scattered,
divided from each other.
But someday, a door to the innermost darkness will open.
And the true light will return.
So, listen, child. Even in the deepest darkness,
there will always be a light to guide you.
Believe in the light, and the darkness will never defeat you.
Your heart will shine with its power and push the darkness away.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBMKadabca0)

The story tells of a world that disappears and then became the one that exists today. But the most suggestive line in here is “That's why the worlds are still scattered” …as if they could be just one world. Or they used to be.

The world where the knights fight looks like a desert, with no life. What if this is a dying world?

I think the true Kingdom Hearts is the closest thing we can get to one having one true world again. But it’s not a world, it’s a bunch of hearts without matter. And the World That Never was, see how HUGE it was compared to the rest of the worlds? You can tell when you look at the world map. Perhaps that was the bodies/matter of destroyed worlds coming back together.

(If Terra and Ven were brothers…and Terra was Sora’s father…then it would make sense that Sora looks like Ven…with brown hair…it would explain the light sabers…)

Thanks for the Sephira tidbit Kanji. I didn‘t know that. ^^

twilight, I absolutely agree with you that memories are a key part of Nomura's plan. They play a big part in Kingdom Hearts. Namine, a “special†being, had powers that focused on memories. The lead villian may have been a completely different person when he had a different set of memories…and yet Sora was still Sora when he lost his. And Roxas was still Roxas even though he didn’t remember Axel…maybe slightly less angsty. *laughs*

In fact, Axel made a great effort to retain his connection with Roxas even though Roxas didn’t remember him. Namine made an effort to reconnect with Sora, though she probably didn’t realize why she was so drawn to him. Sora was driven to find Riku, Kairi was driven to find Sora, and in general Kingdom Hearts has been a story about keeping friends, even when the odds are against you. If we follow that theme, maybe Xehanort was driven to explore the darkness in the heart because he innately felt that it would bring him towards Ven and Aqua, even though he couldn‘t remember them.

^^ You guys probably think I’m making a huge deal out of silly little things. My goal is to find patterns in the story that may be repeated…or purposefully deviated from later. Maybe Baldy will have an organization…of six! Isn’t the fun in speculating bouncing ideas off each other? Even if you’re shot down, you still might inspire someone.

I’ve wondered about what kind of a place Terra, Aqua, and Ven come from, and how their world affected them. There are thousands of key blades around them, and yet no one comes to join the fight. There in a desert, where all life seems to have withered away. Did they have anyone else besides Baldy and each other?

You're on the right course! Memories could be the third element. The ghost we see of Terra could exist in current time, as a shadow of his memories, because his memories were cast out when Baldy took over his body. (I'm repeated what's been said before aren't I? :p)

:p It's not a typo. Sephirot and Sephiroth are different spellings for the same word.

"Sephiroth's name also comes from the Kabbalah, in which the ten Sephiroth (סְפִירוֹת Sephirot) on the Tree of Life represents the ten attributes of God." http://www.answers.com/topic/sephiroth-final-fantasy-vi

The theory I read suggested that each of the nine characters in FF7 represented an attribute on the tree of life, with Sephiroth being the tenth. Here's a brief summary of what the Sephirot is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_Life_(Kabbalah) Evangelion also used the Tree of Life as a mythological basis.

Anyway (before I get kicked off the Kingdom Hearts forum for being irrelevant :o) the same theory talked briefly about the number three reoccuring in FF7. It had something to do with the character connections happening in threes:

Cloud, Aerith, Tifa (love triangle)
Zack, Sephiroth, Cloud (broken connection)
The full party is made of nine, which can be neatly broken into three.

There was more said about the number three, but I just can't remember what. When I played Kingdom Hearts, the reoccuring theme of trinity made me wonder if there was a relation. I tried to find the theory, but I've had no success.

I recognise the trinity as a reoccuring pattern in KH, just like Roxas' life followed the same pattern as Sora's, and how Kanji suggests that Riku's bout with darkness may be a repeat of Terra's (suggested through the clone that Baldy uses).

I just listed the instances where the trinity is used. In Kingdom Hearts, I think it may be a model for perfection. Any of these instances could have used just two people. Why did Roxas have to have three friends in Twighlight Town? Two, one, or four would have worked.

Magic, Defense, Offense.
Kairi, Riku, Sora.
Aqua, Terra, Ven.
Namine, Axel, Roxas.
Donald, Goofy, Sora.
Donald, Goofy, Mickey.
Hayner, Olette, Pence.
Seifer, Fuu, Rai.
Heart, Body, Soul.
Heartless, Nobodies, and that unknown third that so many of us speculate exists. We've all noticed that something is just missing without a third element.

And think about Organization 13. Nomura may have chosen Roxas to be 13 because it's an unlucky number, but also think about how he also didn't belong there. Before him, it would have been Organization 12, and 12 is a multiple of three, the perfect number. By adding that one extra person, the group became unstable.

We can't add Selphie to the Riku, Kairi, and Sora dynamic, because she doesn't fit. She wasn't given as deep an emotional connection to them, and her abilities don't fit into the magic, defense, offense model with them. Riku, Kairi, and Sora were designed to stand as an individual unit. I think Nomura has made a design choice to use the trinity as a basis of strength and completeness or wholeness in Kingdom Hearts.

twilit_shadow, I understand the parallels you're making between Roxas and Sora. I thought Nomura could have done it for the sake of the atmosphere during Roxas' time in Twightlight Town. Nomura was sending subtle hints of Sora to us while we played Roxas.

Long, long ago, before Kingdom Hearts was released, I read a really interesting theory about Final Fantasy 7, that compared the characters to the Sephirot Tree. That's it's own story, but the theory also touched how the number three reoccurs in FF7. Unfortunately, I've long lost the link to that theory. *fustrated*

When Kingdom Hearts came out, it was eery how the trinity symbolism repeated in it. Although I can't remember the significance of the number three in FF7, I have no doubt that Nomura brought that significance into Kingdom Hearts.

Kairi, Riku, Sora.
Aqua, Terra, Ven.
Namine, Axel, Roxas.
Donald, Goofy, Sora.
Donald, Goofy, Mickey.
Magic, Defense, Offense.

No prob. It could be indirectly related. That's probably what it is. But I really want a direct relation! If we assume that Roxas is able to wield a second keyblade because Xemnas handed over his own ability, then a connection could be made between Roxas and Xehanort. A keyblade is a focus of power, but could it also contain things like hearts or memories?

I've think there's a connection from Ven to Roxas/Sora, and Aqua to Kairi. It's a hunch, and I've been looking for possible proof towards it. One really minor point that had me wondering, was that Aqua seems taller and older than Ven. It's really cute, but could possibly keep the dynamics of their relationship from being like Sora and Kairi. When you mentioned that Ven could be the same age as Sora, just not physically, that really opened up some possibilities in my mind...

What do you mean three months to complete? That's too short to create a decent game.

Yes, Terra's the E.S. with the frozen arm. Ven is the one who's whole body was frozen.

Sora, Kairi, and Riku are Japanese names, and they live on an island. So we could say there's a link between the language and where they live. If we look at the world around Ventus, Aqua, and Terra, we see a barren desert. Their names are in Latin, a dead language. Could they have been on a dying world?

A few thoughts, based on the latest interview. My comments are complete speculation, with little to no grounding.

-In KHII FM's additional event "To Put an End to Everything", Sora says "It should have been easy to say thanks to Namine, but I couldn't say it". At this point in time, does Sora remember the things that happened with Namine?

Nomura: If he remembers, it's because Namine's existence was made possible by Sora, and when Namine and Roxas return to Kairi and Sora, many things were connected. Since Sora never got to say thanks to Namine, please think of that as a hint.

We know that Namine wouldn't have existed without Sora. Had Kairi's heart not gone into Sora, it's possible she may not have had a Nobody at all (if you even want to call Namine a Nobody *nods to RikuNotRikku*). When Nomura says "many things were connected" I beleive that an additional connection was made between Kairi and Sora. And I speculate this connection may have an impact should someone try to take their hearts or bodies (think of the Baldy/Terra/Xehanort situation) in the future.


-In the additional event "Farwell to a Friend", there's a scene where Axel tells Roxas "You really do have a heart, don't you". What is the actual case here?

Nomura: In this scene, it ends bringing up more mysteries about Roxas, so for the answer, maybe take care to follow your hunches well, it's also related to Xehanort's memories, but I can't give any specifics now.

How could Roxas' having a heart be related to Xehanort's memories? A tenuous connection could be made by saying that Roxas is connected to Ven, Xehanort is connected to Terra, and something about Ven, Terra, and Aqua has to do with having attributes outside of normal Nobodies.

This would be assuming that is someway Roxas and Ven are the same person, just as Roxas and Sora are the same person. It wouldn't work if all they share is paralleling destinies.

I acknowledge that Roxas's having a heart could be linked to his joining with Sora, but Nomura's comments that this in linked to Xehanort's memories makes me beleive that it goes further.

This is the part I was questioning. I'm not asking about Xehanort who lost his memories and was Ansem's apprentice, but Xehanort who "was originally a partner of Ansem the wise" and could have been Baldy.

When I originally read this, it sounded like RikuNotRikku was refering to the game, not just speculating. I got excited because it could open up more possibilites. :p