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I thought Namine was the one who put up her fists first, and THEN Kairi followed. Hm, I should go find a video.

I agree with all your points, you wanna know something even more pathetic? Olette had a rather nice personality or at least a better impression despite having only a handful of cut scenes, she could also pull sea salt ice cream out of thin air (then again that's an awesome power as she can do it consistently), but at least she was friendly and interacted enough to give the impression of a good and caring friend. Kairi on the other hand, just....acts like some snooty wench.

Kairi will never be a true "fighter" at best she can hope for "healer" or "I can use a little magic!" position of the trio (speaking productively). She can never hope to reach Tifa, Yuffie or ANY one of the Gullwings and doing SOMETHING productive. Seriously, she has as much purpose as the next hapless NPC on the other worlds, except with less personality and less use.

Take for example Mulan and Ariel, both are female, both fight on your party, both have bloody personalities despite only appearing for one world or TWO in the case of Ariel (but god did I hate that sing-a-long mini-game).

Even Aerith who sounds and has the strength of a dying cancer patient (reference to KH2 and her lack of any weapon or aggressive gestures/manners in-game) she can at least toss potions or CURES to her allies while she "cheers them on". What does Kairi do? Run once, lounge about like she's not being chased by a teleporting runaway raver, and then get captured the 2nd time she sees Mr. McCapture the Human Moomba.

And for the last time, if someone mutters "blame Disney" look at the CREDITS at the end of the game, under all of the credits entailing story is NOMURA listed and him alone or one other person who is clearly not of the Disney staff, who is in charge.

Yet they still consider her a MAIN CHARACTER.

Also lack of a character can be a reason to dislike her.

That is the most bizarre set of points I have ever seen. I also strongly disagree that Kairi should epitomize how a girl should act, because, really if she epitomized how a girl should act, straight off the bat she shouldn't be getting captured so pathetically. And that's on a quick-glance notice.

And there is no set gender-role for being a good person. A good person and their good or otherwise upstanding qualities shouldn't be limited by GENDER of all things. :\

You're right she was stuck on an island, then stuck in Twilight Town (and despite being chased by AXEL, did nothing to really try to prepare herself, IF HE HAPPENED TO TELEPORT THERE). And then she gets stuck in the Castle That Never Was... oh wait Pluto, then her other SELF happens to portal her whenever she needs to get somewhere. And she doesn't need a bloody ship, and no she had no bloody portal, but she is SOMEHOW A BLOODY PRINCESS OF LIGHT (which was supposedly quite great a game ago) WITH NO APPLICABLE POWERS UNLESS A CUTSCENE SAYS SO.

Also I restate, her BOTTLE LETTER managed to teleport, why couldn't she? Oh right, PLOT DEVICE!

And no, that fight was LAME in the fact that the ONE time she gets to really fight, she doesn't REALLY NEED TO.

And really, liking your friends is not a brownie points characteristic, that's just park of the package of being FRIENDS. (Why are people so impressed by that?!)

But hey, it's your opinion. 8]

She stands there because she has no weapon yet ALL THE SUE POWERS IN THE WORLD. And SHE thought she could find Sora with a note in a bottle, and you know what? SHE DID. And frankly that is one of the lamest things she could do.

Why didn't Kairi do more to prepare herself despite the fact that Axel was chasing her and she knew he could WARP?

Agreed, but then again I actually happen to LIKE some of the fan-author's depictions of her, as for some reason they seem to be able to mold her "character" better. :\

[Now for some SE criticism rant.]

And, REALLY, name a SE game that isn't marketed for the generic populous. The worst they do is kill one main character, or make one person betray you, but otherwise the main cast is efficient (as in if someone dies, it IS to save the world anyway, so no deaths in vain), and WANT TO SAVE THE WORLD with their compensating weapon. Also it is some sort of angelic-looking main villain too, who somehow can destroy the world with their awesome power or something, seriously, there are other ways to destroy the planet aside from sheer force.

[Now for the one thing SE has done -right-.]
Namine and Riku, I enjoyed those two character's for what they were aiming for.

I didn't, I was referring to Nomura's main female characters (after a certain point they, the main female characters, all started having the same hairstyle too...). Don't forget Advent Children, if that wasn't Cloud emo-ing, I don't know what is.

Then again, I find many SE characters somewhat bland, Cloud is an exception because he's already messed up as it is, but the "other" main characters lack real excuses, also I believe Nomura hates father figures, but it could just be me.

Well the two female characters I described actually refer to a completely different game company, so I suppose that's what went wrong. Or maybe it's Nomura, I see a certain pattern with him and his character mechanics... :\

(addressed in order of paragraph points.)

Being a LOVE INTEREST does not create character. The least they could have done to justify why they like each other or at least what MAKES KAIRI LOVABLE. Sorry people, but if the main character is supposed to love someone, at least grace me with some FLASHBACKS as to why. (Hell, Sora even got a flashback about why he and Riku are friends...where was Kairi's?)

Sorry this also doesn't fly, a HUG is not saving someone, I assure you. The "throwing oneself dramatically" is overdone, a sign of Suedom and a dramatic disgrace. And need I remind you, she just FLOPPED onto little Shadow Sora. Now had she actually taken HITS for actual ATTACKS, my respect for her would have gone up in all fairness. Better yet, if she physically stopped them from attacking and then did her Mary-Sue-Cure action!

Once again, another trait of Suedom. A letter written by a PRINCESS OF LIGHT, brings the heroes back home. They could have at least humored us with the "wishful thinking of all the family and loved ones of Riku and Sora," that brought them back. If they included that in addition to the letter, the whole thing would be far less SUE and far more credible. Alas, this is but another feeble attempt at redeeming miss princess.

You know what I found odd? When Kairi got dropped off in Twilight Town, she didn't bother to get any weapons or much of anything else despite being chased by a man in a black coat and with a CRAZY look on his face. Isn't that weird? I mean, considering he DID come out of nowhere back on Destiny Islands, you would think she would have the common sense to arm herself, with either a struggle bat or something else (she also doesn't know anything about Axel's powers, just an FYI!). Or is that too thoughtful?

The reason for the keyblade can practically be agreed upon as a shabby, poorly executed attempt at showing the brilliant SueRainbow that makes up miss princess of light Kairi. If Sora can pick up a STICK and battle on, so can Kairi. But no, she had a weapon handed to her, a very special one at that.

--------------------------- (a separate point)

For the sake of helping others possibly imagine female characters done FINE AND WELL. Do not look at SquareEnix, refer to ATLUS where apparently they believe in character balance. However for the sake of argument I will outline (for example) a pair of female characters from one game in comparison to Kairi (both share the same role in many senses, but for the sake of not naming names nor promoting another game in a KH-specific thread, I will list only the first letter of their names).

Girl Y is considered popular (because of her appearance) but is an (emotionally) "distant" person (she is only friendly to a few), she is afraid of getting too close to others because of how her mother and father turned out. She is trendy, can come off as being flippant at times, has a fear of ghosts, but an iron will for what is right (there is also almost no stopping her once it gets down to it). Although she gets stuck with healing abilities, she is also associated with the element of wind (and can thus attack with that as well). She also is skilled at using a bow and arrow as well as intrigued by the sport of archery. She has some of her weak moments (she is helped by some despite how she tries to solve them herself) but when it comes down to it, she is able to stare death straight in the eye and overcome that fear. She also despises being looked down at just for being a girl or being given certain roles that are meant to suppress (such as being forced to dress up in a maid outfit just because men say so) . Sexism is one thing she despises, but she still has a romantic part to her.

Girl A is actually conditioned into being a fighting machine, without question or without much thought. However some concepts such as a "reason" elude her for some time, and while not questioning it for the most part, she eventually begins to realize it is -because- she has no reason (that she knows of to fight) that she is left feeling helpless and weak. Only by realizing this does she finally find her true calling as a defender for those she has become friends with. She also manages to figure out that even though she may now have fear and hesitation, it gives her courage and resolve. When it comes to fighting she somehow manages to pull off support skills, one heal skill and several (powerful) physical attacks. She is literally the tank character of the group in addition to this.

Both of these characters are introduced and developed in the ONE game. Kairi received two. Neither of these characters are a "fated" anything, one is a STUDENT (much like Kairi) and the other is a ROBOT with a human mind (so I don't expect as much of an exact comparison with her, but I would like to show more character diversity for the position of heroine.) Also, neither get captured, put in danger, yes (and they get themselves out of it too), but never captured (which probably seems AMAZING to the SE-only player). (Actually a guy happens to get captured, which I found hilarious.) There are two more I could mention, however they have considerable differences in character position, also if you know what game this is from, good for you (you should also be able to understand my griping about SE girls/characters). And if you STILL consider Kairi a good female character after playing this game, I suggest you re-evaluate your thought process, thoroughly.

Side-Note: From this same game, there is an equal ratio of female to male healers and magic users, which I find refreshing given that many of the healers are quite mouthy, strong willed, and in some of these cases, hard hitters, in addition to a more equal justification as to why they can heal (agendas not genders!). They also have to learn these skills as well as actually "want" these abilities. None of their powers were given to them, they had to be earned as well as maintained (in the case of Girl Y, she has to practice for her archery; same for Girl A, where after a while of not fighting her abilities regress).

I second Gritz's sentiments....WHUT?

Side-Note: I think almost ALL of the SE girl's suck as characters, then again it's hard to find real character winners at all in SE, IN MY OPINION.

The question is a little vague, if you mean people to travel with him he probably would still make it, probably just at a slower pace though. In the very least, Mickey/the voice would have possibly guided him or some other plot device.

But if you mean utterly alone then he would probably be more screwed up then he currently is.

Regardless, he would make it somehow, some way, he is the main character for a reason, look at Roxas, sure he had friends in data land, but he was technically alone but still somehow "made it" to the end of his story.

-Sorry for the late reply-

If she had to REALLY get to the Castle, Namine could have helped her just the same (or Pluto -the safer bet- really) so no, that doesn't work. As for your statement about her needing to be helped out by Namine, sure she would trust her, she's the only "way out" as far as she knows, but I never asked why Kairi so easily accepted help from Namine, I referred to Axel and Saix.

Also, Kairi has no siblings, the closest she has are Riku and Sora, and in all the cutscenes shown, SHE is the one initiating most things, or being an active participant, regardless, she is established to have enough initiative yet when it really matters for that initiative to have some worth, she kinda craps out. Kairi clearly trusted Namine enough, or at least rather quickly if Namine is holding her hand and running with her. So really, points for Namine in KH2. (Ironic the "real" one didn't get these.)

As ICSP has sad already it is supposed to represent a whole being.

In my honest opinion it is just a crown that represents the light as it was called. If you haven't noticed all of the "symbols" thus far have "3 points" to each of them. The Heartless emblem, the Nobody emblem and the Crown symbol. Respectively you could even try to examine the crown to say it represents the sun rising along the horizon, but really it just looks like a crown and means just that, a sign of something powerful and noble.

If this was done enough to an extreme we would probably get something akin to Huxley's Brave New World (if you do not know what that is, read it, it proves quite relevant and outlines points that would equate to possibly a triple-the-length-of-a-normal-Repliku post, aka very long post in reply to this.)

From a medical standpoint however, if they could perfect getting rid of a specific genetic disorder such as autism or defects that, in a normal baby would kill it after or even -before- birth, I would support it. There is more than one way to use alternating genetics, it having pros and cons as well as how direct it is.

If anyone wants to argue how unnatural things are getting, think of modern childbirth, the amount of drugs used as well as the situations put in a hospital setting of childbirth is a far cry from what it -once was-.

And to be honest, (I speak from a less than sensitive and probably completely heartless point of view), but if I could prevent my child from being autistic and was therefore requiring that everyone else had to "ice-foot" it around them, I'd rather alter my kid's genes and have them hate me rather than making them be a possible hazard to others and more importantly to themselves. Then again that could just be me.

But most importantly is that this procedure is -optional-. Also if God didn't want us meddling with our genes he would have made them -less logical- and possibly out of sparkles so our scientific minds couldn't figure it out.

Last Minute Edit: Consider surgery (medical and cosmetic), ANY SURGERY, hell dentistry or even GLASSES, that's altering our bodies. If you're against genetic fiddling and you happen to have, glasses, braces, ever worn a cast, will ever need to get surgery or put under anesthetics, consider THAT and how unnatural it is. Also please discard your clothing, according to the rules of nature you don't need them (for the most part).

It's the second time she's seen Axel, being shocked after the 2nd time is a rather poor reason. And Namine is helping Sora for Sora, there was an entire game on that, KH2's story-line is screwed up in it's rationale, so I don't hold it accountable for whatever last-minute, unfounded stuff it spews forth. She also held Kairi's hand and helped her escape, literally. When Saix appeared Namine made a tough face and at least made an indication she wasn't going to go quietly, Kairi mimicked her afterwards, quite lame if you ask me, the Original mimicking the shadow at that. Kairi also knew Saix was evil and had ill-intent, she talked to him from her cell, so no excuse for "not knowing."

As Repliku has already stated, Sora is a rather likable character for those reasons. Another is that he has a personality that feels sincere, and what's wrong with having an earnest hero?

Sure he isn't the brightest bulb but he more than makes up with his sincerity and light-hearted character.

That first line, you didn't read the part that preceded it did you?

WARNING THIS POST MAY OFFEND SENSITIVE FF FANS. BY READING BEYOND HERE YOU ARE LIABLE TO BE OFFENDED BY MY OPINION.

That means you didn't catch the other meaning. *cough* Anyway. I was commenting on the four the first poster brought up, you on the other hand are bringing up FFs (Tactics and pre-FF7 I'm assuming) I have honestly never played those, what with playing FF7 (the "best one") and not being impressed I haven't really found much motivation to play the other FFs (I played FF8 first, FFTA, found some enjoyment in it, then FF7 and THEN FFX -it was not as well-received as the others-, so I took a shot at the one "nobody seemed to like," and was once again disappointed with that one). Out of ALL of them, I enjoyed FFTA for the GBA the most because I could create an army of Moogles.

As for the perfect formula of a hero, hell no, they may be "perfect" on paper but they suck in practice (in my opinion). They brood enough to make me not give a damn about any of them (in the case of FFX I wanted to help Sin destroy Spira and it's miserably poor characters), and they have to be coerced into looking outside of their emo corner to do anything (which is creative the first time around, but they whine for stupid reasons, "my dreams were dashed as a child, but I'm an awesome mercenary now, BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER," "my sister went away, and despite having the best mommy figure on the face of the planet, I just couldn't COPE despite how well everyone else did, oh woe is me that I didn't have a family- yet I can find it within my dead heart to love this air headed woman" and "cry cry my daddy called me bad names and he went away, but CRY CRY, THE NAMES from nearly a decade ago!" etc. and YEARS after these "traumatic" experiences they STILL brood about it, sorry but that doesn't FLY). They also lack (from what I've played mind you) the ability to act very human at all, they're too wrapped up in toting around their over sized weapons to act human (for a good half of the game), their minor characters and NPCs behave in a more humanistic manner, and I don't know about you, but I can't really enjoy a cast which is more bland than the nameless people that wonder around in the cities you're supposed to save. True they have one or two likable characters in their pool of 6+, but that isn't a very good percentile considering the weight of the story (as well as the later/moving parts of the game where you aren't doing things to "save the world" but save your party member or some such plot device) is dedicated to finding out more about these characters.

For those curious the characters I found most interesting were: FF7 = Cid, FF8 = Zell, FFX= Rikku and Auron, FFTA: Montblanc.

END NOT-SO-POSITIVE OPINION.

Also I find the Legend of Zelda franchises cannot be held to the same criteria as Square's RPGs as Link is a silent hero and the respective heroes of each of their FFs clearly have their own (weak shreds of) personalities as they are constantly expressing how sad and against things they are. Another is that Zelda is almost always a princess who gets to inherit certain powers that come with her being royalty, there is nothing very Mary Sue about that. It's like saying because you get a hand-me-down car from your parents you are a Mary Sue. :\

On a similar note to pre-argue any "Kairi supporters," the difference between Zelda and Kairi being princesses is that Zelda was born into her royal blood, and Kairi is *chosen* by her bland character- I mean PURE HEART, to BE a "more special than a normal princess" princess.