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Reasons of economy. As was said numerous times in the thread, introducing Cure and associated spells at a later time allows the player to develop on other methods of HP management, whether it is inventory organization or simple dodging/movement, that arguably are less MP-dependent and could retain it as needed for more offensive uses. However, I do like the idea of Cure's introduction being dependent on the difficulty level, along with magic acquisition customization. More than anything, it may indeed be nicest if the game fit its introduction with the level at which the player felt comfortable.

​

m u s i c
bleeding ivy​

I, Gotterdammerung, found the walk to be weary and tiresome, or so I would find, if I were but a biological immortal construct and not simply an artificial creation of my Mimi-mistress. Despite this, the vines and hedges grew thick and menacing, with twisting, thorny rope-strands of bleeding greenery interspersed with coldly scintillating flowers. I, Gotterdammerung, followed slowly behind my Mimi-mistress as the party attempted to continue through the overgrown foliage, and from my personal connection with my almighty mistress, I was thankful to notice that her emotions were something that I, Gotterdammerung, read and understood to be simple fascination with the world of flowers around her rather than fear, for my Mimi-mistress was truly the greatest and strongest of all mistresses.

Despite this, the city of hedge mazes was something that I, Gotterdammerung, found to be immensely disconcerting for the other immortal individuals. The grass and flowers consumed one's mind, and the stench of oversweetened rose mingled as a poison in the air. Strange creatures, which I, Gotterdammerung, assumed to be other individuals or immortals of the territory, would briefly peek their eyes towards the group before disappearing into the foliage, or letting the ground take them completely. Occasionally, I, Gotterdammerung, would come to observe small cottages recessed in alcoves, beneath wooded sections, or hidden between bushes. My Mimi-mistress would pay no attention. When I, Gotterdammerung, felt a slight pang in the heart of my Mimi-mistress, I would realize that the dolls she had used as checkpoints would lose their autonomy, perhaps crushed by the weight of the maze, and how lost I, Gotterdammerung, feared to be, was something that if I, Gotterdammerung, possessed emotions by the graceful touch of my Mimi-mistress, would be shaking.

Time is hard to gauge for someone such as I. Yet within the maze, the very notion of time was concrete in a way that it would never exist. So when the vines grew thicker and woodier, and the flowers more fragrant, I, Gotterdammerung, realized that, through logical association and the help of the thoughts of my Mimi-mistress, it was entirely possible I had reached closer to the middle of the maze, unharmed.

My Mimi-mistress jumped. I turned around.
A sickening growl, like the falling of a tree in a storm, resonated from behind us.
Immediately, my Mimi-mistress scooped I, Gotterdammerung up. Turning around and looking at the blooming, flower-petalled section of the maze wall, it appeared that we may have been getting ever so closer to the home of the plant immortal.

But just that. I, Gotterdammerung, felt that my Mimi-mistress, the kindest and sweetest mistress to exist if I, Gotterdammerung, were to possess any other mistresses, grew more apprehensive, noting that it would be best to get to the home of the plant immortal quickly.
- - - - -

The last game I played in terms of chronological release was Unleashed a few years ago and was never able to finish it, and to be honest the Sonic franchise has silently tucked itself under my radar for a few years in general. I do enjoy the concept of this, though, and I actually am not that bothered at all by the redesigns. Knuckles' bulk fits the sort of character he is. As for Sonic's legs, I am not too sure how far they are going with anatomical plausibility but I do not think his character design would effectively hinder his trademark acceleration (though whether or not it would have the same feel is up to the nature and gameplay of the game itself, and whether or not it feels just as fast-paced or is a slower one). I agree with Haya in being cautiously supportive of new things. But yes, we will see. The call of hope has been something consistently heard often through the franchise.

You see, we all know what happened was that Fork decided to trap you in the Escherian constructs of his mind, so I am glad he was finally able to release you from those endless jail cells. Welcome back to your old jail cell that is KH-Vids. Tonight, the special is pescado frito with apple, so I hope you tolerate it.

It feels very much like it is a combination of ignorance (i.e. in regards to both the role of immigration in society and the lack of an official language, among other things) compounded with the atmosphere of slight hostility and defensiveness over certain ideas that I occasionally feel from certain folks in the States these past few ideologically confrontational years.

At the end of it, people have different conceptions on what it means to be American, or a citizen of the United States. Unfortunately, some of these ideas are extremely narrow-minded. I am simply happy that there are some slow steps going towards improving the public opinion of minorities in the States. In fact, the airing of this commercial on the Super Bowl would be intentionally risky, as was stated earlier in the thread, for good reason of simply being one of the most popular events in the country. Target as many people as one can, as it were. I may not be a fan of your corporation as a whole, but good on you for this beautifully touching advertisement with its very strategic placement, Coca-Cola, even if it might just be expanding your consumer group, eheheh.

Surely you ran fast enough to have done this yourself, friend. We all have.

I lost all my cards. I did not have the heart of the cards.

All the Bravest.

I have been meaning to try this particular viewing order just to see if it would improve the prequels for me a bit.

​

INTOXICATION
[ x x x x x x x ]
​

Sangria turned.
Oh?
She wanted something, the little girl?

Mhmhm. She walked over to the Benevolent fairy, staring down at her small form.
At times, Sangria felt dismayed that she would be willing to offer a drink and good fun to someone like this, but they were immortals now, right? Hah.

Before saying anything, she gazed carefully at the girl.
The little party here was getting immensely boring, but such was what happened with these generically shallow Fairwyn events that did not hold a candle to her endless Kantharos dithyrambs. Sangria giggled to herself. She snapped her fingers and Chardonnay appeared behind her with a bottle of shiraz.

She leaned in close sideways to the small girl, whispering in her ear and stroking the edge of a lock of hair.
"Who is at the bar? Is the stock almost fully replaced?"
"Yes, Brewmistress. The young man is, Brewmistress."
"What, the old hassle you dealt with in the closet?"
"No, one of our own, Brewmistress. But these people are too drunk to notice. Or care." Chardonnary sniffed as she tried to hold back a snort.
"Good." She took the bottle from Chardonnay's hands.
"Set up the table down by the outer ends."
Chardonnay stiffened a bit.

"Please clean up if I'm not there in fifteen, hun. <3" She drifted a long finger through a lock of Chardonnay's hair, and Chardonnay simply stood at attention. "Manage this place while I'm gone, will you?"
"I will, Brewmistress."

Chardonnay bowed deeply and retreated. Sangria placed the shiraz on the counter in front of Daphne.

"Say, hun, how's about you and I go to somewhere more private and fun for a little talk, don't you say? <3"
Sangria winked and stared deeply into Daphne's eyes, using her sense of inhibition lowering to dull the poor girl's senses into potentially agreeing. Yet, she did it halfheartedly, because in much honesty, she was unsure what the bubbly young lady wanted, nor did she care if it did not have anything of use to her.

​

​

Nothing that justifies violent action. Poor Sora is a trusting lad but in many of these instances his reactions make sense due to the deep sense of idealism he possesses and the fact that his antics help continue the story in a way that allows the player to essentially be on the same level of general awareness regarding the plot, excluding foreshadowing or hypotheses of the future or what have you. More than anything it would be grand if they allow this as a set up for his final maturity in KHIII.

​

From I, Gotterdammerung, who bore a shared connection of stalwart memory with my kind and benevolent Mimi-mistress, who attempted to scrounge ideas of what this particularly flowery land appeared to look like in a previous venture, as I, Gotterdammerung, recall my Mimi-mistress once before briefly using this land as a waypoint between territories, I, Gotterdammerung, simply found myself distracted as the immortal individuals touched their feet upon the ground from the metallic craft, and my dear mistress, holding me tightly, rushed around with a glint in her eye and a wide-cheeked smile as she took in the rich rosy scent of Silva est Herba.

m u s i c
bleeding ivy ​

I, Gotterdammerung, slipped out of my Mimi-mistress' arms, and looking up, I noticed her gaze to be far much too distracted by the wonder of plant life around her to immediately notice my movements, but even if she did, the plum-cheeked joy that my Mimi-mistress appeared to express at this particular Valen region to absolutely notice. I attempted to search the mind of my Mimi-mistress for deeper considerations on what may have perturbed her to act in such a manner, but I noticed that the other immortals began walking forward, and I, Gotterdammerung, the closest of my Mimi-mistress' dolls, was only able to glean what felt like a soothing aura of contentment from my dearest mistress.

I, Gotterdammerung, believe that describing the plant life of this particular region would be considered a definitive understatement of what my Mimi-mistress believes to be the actual nature of this particular territory. I, Gotterdammerung, being the greatest and most loyal of servants to my Mimi-mistress, utilised my observational constructions to attempt and discern all of which was to be noted in this particular territory. I glanced at the other immortals, who had gained some pace, and immediately informed my Mimi-mistress that she must catch up with them. It took a certain period of waiting, but she would move behind them, lag a bit, and run further some more, I, Gotterdammerung, attempting to absorb as much of the territorial information as possible in this frame of observational time.

The world was built, in a metaphorical sense, on the skeleton of vines and seemed to blossom out of the iridescent grass. Stems and leaves twisted into spirals that formed the world's fabric, vines that danced into arches and tickled fingers of wriggling ivy creating lattice-works of flower-dotted plant walls as thick as earth and stone. Far in the sky floated distant petals, and the thick smell of rose, ivy, and vineyard raised its head sleepily from the black soil, cascading the land in a haze of delicate, natural solemnity. The plantwork was not simply limited to greens or reds, but shimmered in the cold sunlight, painting the scene in a watercolour of rainbow hues that blended naturally into each other and shifted at the slightest flick of the vision. I, Gotterdammerung, considered it to be a world of life and constant change; a world that held risk of quickly overwhelming my simple sense-constructions. Yet at the same time, I, Gotterdammerung, felt an air of imposing warning lurking beneath. The leaves were sharp and jagged, the vines bore thick black thorns. The colours were not bright, but just slightly pastel and pale, and the sunlight was tinted a sharp violet that hid menace beneath the colourful canopy.

I, Gotterdammerung, turned to my Mimi-mistress, whose gaze did not once break from her wonder of the plant life around her, but as the party approached the heaven-touching labyrinthine wall, I, Gotterdammerung, would have shared the sense of dread that the other immortal individuals appeared to share, if I, Gotterdammerung, possessed the capacity to express such advanced emotions.

My Mimi-mistress sat down on the earth in front of the maze, delicately stroking the shimmering grass with her fingers, and I, Gotterdammerung, being the most protective of all of Mimi-mistress' dearest servants, quickly wandered over to her side, ready to protect my Mimi-mistress as necessary. Her smile did not break until the plant-woman entered and left just as quickly as she came across them. It had happened in a quick moment, and though I, Gotterdammerung, had turned away from my mistress to look upon this scene, I felt at the back of my head my mistress' contentment turning to wonder and then familiar solemnity. Looking back, her smile had dropped.

But her plants are so pretty ...

I, Gotterdammerung, the closest companion of my Mimi-mistress, was highly inclined to state that the plants of this individual, the Lady of Silva est Herba, were indeed pretty, if I, Gotterdammerung, understood the aesthetic value that natural-living individuals possessed in observing their surroundings. I turned to my Mimi-mistress, and informed her of the situation that had taken place. She shook her head, her face turning sour, as if the violet light had reached her tongue. My Mimi-mistress stood up.

But ... pretty plants ...

I, Gotterdammerung, felt a groan from my Mimi-mistress' thoughts. From my observations and shared connection with my dear mistress, she did not find deciphering this particular book worth it if it meant completely disregarding the continued exploration of this land by her own hand. This was, of course, one of the lands that my Mimi-mistress and I did not get the pleasure of exploring completely in the past. I, however, attempted my best to assure my Mimi-mistress of the importance of our goal. Though I, being a loyal servant to my Mimi-mistress, did not quite understand the goal due to its complexity among immortals, I simply relayed the information gathered to her, in the hopes that the powerful mind of my Mimi-mistress would be able to understand.

It took the immortal named Asterion for my Mimi-mistress to return to her senses. She nodded and closed her eyes, placing her hands on her ears, ready to use her voice powers to reach the Lady of Silva est Herba. I, Gotterdammerung, prepared myself.

My Mimi-mistress relayed this information to me, and channelled my being to relay this information to the collection of immortals that were present.

- - - - -

It is of course I that always feels the deepest connection with my mistress.​

I, Gotterdammerung, feel the thoughts of my mistress flow through me.



My Mimi-mistress claims that this party of immortals means no harm.
All immortals present, I, Gotterdammerung, come to understand, wish the most gracious of apologies in upsetting the Lady of Silva est Herba, and will gladly leave, if required, by the ruling, Lady. She says it is understandable, the frustration, when my Mimi-mistress is guilty herself of being unable, to experience the territory in its, entirety, but I, Gotterdammerung, believe that sharing the reasoning behind our goal, if you may, be willing to listen, could put the immortals on better, terms. As I, Gotterdammerung, believe that, the endpoint of this goal may be relevant to you as, well, and it is in the best interest of the immortals above I, Gotterdammerung, to help you and, your territory--

. . . Miss Aka!

I, Gotterdammerung, am both simultaneously surprised and worried, if I were able to express, both, that my Mimi-mistress has directly interjected using her own voice, and recommends that she--

. . . Miss Aka! Your plants are really pretty!
I haven't seen anything this pretty before!
I'm really sad I didn't get to come here sooner!
Show me more! Can you, Miss Aka?​

​

INTOXICATION
[ x x x x x x ]
​

Sangria stood to her full six feet and walked over to the congregation of collapsed folk, swirling an orange liquid in a shot glass. Ah ... the young Benevolent Sorceress, of course, and the two immortals who never seemed to leave each other. A congregation of irritated-looking Fairwyn boors were at attention around them, ready to break things in half.

"Now now, dears."
One of them turned to Sangria. "And you! I don't--"
"Ah ah."
She reached over and stroked the man's cheek. Immediately, he lost his sense of balance and fell backward, quickly being caught by his gaggle of friends. Sangria took this time to lurch over and drop the contents of the shot glass in the man's open mouth. His eyes widened. There we go. She quickly walked back to the other three and shuffled them in arm away from the rest of the dancing immortals and their ridiculous concept of having fun.

"These guys need to loosen up a bit, don't you agree?"
"Mmm ... there's only so much fun you can have with the people of Fairwyn, you know? They only know how to party with themselves." She took a lone bottle on a table and sipped its ends. "And you know? There's muuuuch more fun to be had, yet these don't know a party if it hit them in the back of the head ..."

"Now, I didn't have the pleasure of asking you three about the castle ..."

At one of the far tables, where Asterion, Vex, and the business-lady herself found themselves sitting, an overturned wine glass seemed to vibrate ... something directly in front of them.
Oh?
Sangria walked over.

"Looks like we're--"
"This is the party that had previously attempted to visit the Library." The voice was coarse and robotic, and the sound was produced in the vibrations of the crystal rather than any central point. The familiar sound of Mimi's strange bear throwing its voice. How did she manage to use a glass for this--
Ah, wait.
Sangria looked closer at the glass. There were still a few droplets of light alcohol sliding down the edges, and the rim was slightly wet.

Ohoho.
"The we of immortals are heading to Twercania to discover more information on the book."
Sangria almost dropped the glass on the table. The we of immortals?
"Twercania?" Her voice was briefly ice-cold, disgusted, as if spitting muddy water.

She looked at the others, slowly composing herself.
" ... Well, well. " Sangria found a seat, a bit aways from the other three. "It certainly sounds like the others are having a better party than we are, dears. <3"

Eventually, a few of the bar Valen decided to join the expedition.
Sangria refused, because she had her own work to do here, for now. Twercania would be their effort. She tapped the voice-thrown glass and it vibrated a bit.
Even the darkest of liquors could not penetrate that overgrowth ...

​

​

​

The last time I, Gotterdammerung, recall visiting Nibelung was a time period that feels distant enough that much of it is in a haze, yet close enough that I am able to still recall a number of key events, though perhaps not in sequence. I, Gotterdammerung, am unsure what to call this period of time, as I am unfamiliar with the concept, but from my understanding of how my Mimi-mistress views time, I feel that it was a good while ago, and so my memory ebbs. So alas, I only recall bits and pieces of the place, but no doubt my glorious mistress knows more about it than I, Gotterdammerung, seeing as she controls every gear, cog, and mechanic of that place. I, Gotterdammerung, included.

I observed the library to be dank, musty, and decrepit for a place that was called the Library of Champions. I followed behind my Mimi-mistress, who followed the other immortals, and I watch her gaze suspiciously at the crags of dust and dirt lining the empty shelves, as if she were threatened by their very existence, her feet tapping gently on the yellowed wood of the floor. My Mimi-mistress retrieved a black licorice lollipop from her pocket and stuffed it in her mouth, her cheeks bulging with bittersweet flavour. I, Gotterdammerung, personally felt it to be absurd that the party would decide to visit a library in this particular land of all places, but my Mimi-mistress felt slightly differently about it all. My mistress bore her typical half-smile of contentment when absolutely bored out of her grandiose mind, and if I, Gotterdammerung, were to feel similarly as my Mimi-mistress, I would feel just as curious about this particular realm as she did.

For you see, I, Gotterdammerung, observed in my careful capturing of scenes and soft-stepped observations that Fairwyn was nearly the complete opposite of our home, lying so far away at the very boundary of the Aether realms. My Mimi-mistress felt nearly uncomfortable with the noise, the life, the crowdedness. A billion and one bodies hustling together, in what I, Gotterdammerung, felt as a sordid reflection on what the immortals these days considered images of perfection in their world. Or perhaps, I mused as I, Gotterdammerung, held on to the back of Mimi-mistress' coat as she poked her head through the aisles, this was simply the thoughts of my mistress, the greatest and most respectable of all mistresses and a mistress of time immemorial, to be those that were channeling through the mind of I, her servant.

The walk here had not been very far, and I, Gotterdammerung, questioned why immortals still required the need to walk, but my thoughts were silenced by my Mimi-mistress, who called upon me to briefly stay quiet as she sucked on her lollipop out there while hearing the voices of the others speaking around her upon the streets. I, Gotterdammerung, wished to get a hurry with reaching this "Library of Champions", but my Mimi-mistress was distracted and took her time. I, Gotterdammerung, understood that the choices of my mistress were immutable law, and I had no choice but to follow, for why shall I follow not that which I, Gotterdammerung, know to be god to my consciousness?

As much as the people, the streets of Fairwyn were very much unlike Nibelung, yet from the other places that I, Gotterdammerung, had visited, my Mimi-mistress allowed me to understand that many locations in the great realm of immortals took heavy inspiration from construction and cityscape, especially those created by creatures which were more humanoid beings before ascension. And I, Gotterdammerung, following my dedication towards my Mimi-mistress as we had continued on our way to the library back then, saw no exception in the streets of Fairwyn, which roared with sombre drums and bagpipe tones, laughter and voice and cat-calls of jeering mockery, where the slender buildings rose jagged and arched like the fingertips of smashed plank-ends tickling the pink, star-speckled sky. My Mimi-mistress would stop from time to time and gaze at the goods behind windows, shining in golden street-light, watching her kind little eyes dance as she pressed her tiny hands to the glass. I would occasionally recommend my wise mistress to continue with her trek and move away from her kiddish desires, and although I would initially be silenced, my voice would grow loud enough to the point where she made me agree with her own desire to continue with the others. I, Gotterdammerung, understood it to be a slow trek.

But now that I, Gotterdammerung, and the companions of my Mimi-mistress, the purest and kindest mistress of all mistresses and whom I am in debt to existence to bear the pleasure of serving, were now present in this empty library, the fears that I, Gotterdammerung, and my Mimi-mistress shared in our conjoined sense of emotion appeared to come to fruition as the building stood completely empty, with no help but a few scattered books here and there.

My Mimi-mistress took three of them. I, Gotterdammerung, felt a surge of curiosity run through the stuffing of I, and as I turned to my Mimi-mistress with her books in hand, I noticed a childish giggle light her face as she placed the books down on a table a bit a ways from the other immortals.

I jumped onto the table, and my Mimi-mistress placed the three books in a sequence in front of me. Bending down, I racked through my indexes of memory to recall an understanding of the Faer text that these muscular immortals all spoke and wrote with, but the refreshing of my mistress' power through my own consciousness immediately made all the word clear to me. My beloved mistress let out a giggle.

. . . Read!

I complied.

The first book was titled the Lannis-naecht leabh Reachta, or the Court's Landservants. I, Gotterdammerung, expected this to hold some information on what I perceived in my limited observational capacity to be the strict immortal individuals who called themselves the Elite Guard and had taken possession of the enormous castle that my Mimi-mistress felt very uneasy in and gave my entire existence a headache-inducing rattling. I, Gotterdammerung, found instead the tale of a young immortal named Seirbigh who came to life in the realm of immortals in an earlier age, where the conflict between opposing parties was much more ruthless. The young Seirbigh took to gathering a group of similarly low-placed immortals and create an army ready to protect those in need from constant torment. Seirbigh established sets of rules that slowly helped change the nature of this older realm, yet his army grew larger and larger, gaining more power. Eventually, Seirbigh was on the cusp of fighting God himself, but in a desperate power struggle among the very courts of peace he established years before, he was slain by his own army, claiming that Seirbigh had wandered beyond the ideals he originally fought for. My Mimi-mistress was solemn through the entire story, and I, Gotterdammerung, would turn up to her numerous times as I read it out, noticing how absentmindedly she slumped her head upon her arms, sucking her lollipop, deep in thought yet closed off to my emotional connection with my almighty mistress. The book never made known what happened to the landservants, or whether or not it was an agent of God who orchestrated Seirbigh's downfall himself.

I, Gotterdammerung, closed the book and stood up, walking to the other, before plopping down and moving closer to my Mimi-mistress, who pulled one of my limbs nearer to her. From aside, a few of the other immortals appeared to be searching, I, Gotterdammerung, observed. The second book was titled Cuilainnarach Eoirealta, or Crusaders of Stardust, and I, Gotterdammerung, found it to be a very strange book. As I looked through the pages, my Mimi-mistress' curiosity surged through my consciousness, and she peeked ever closer. It was a cookbook, detailing recipes from a number of territories well known for their cooking. I, Gotterdammerung, am happy to say that my mistress' eyes sparkled in delight upon eyeing the section of the sweets. At the same time, however, the pages in between reflected an ambiguous, almost disconnected story. The story told the tale of a star-shaped cake that was divided equally among six children. No child finished their slices completely, and the cake was put into storage for future use. In the middle of the night, one child visited the storage room and consumed all of the cake. The next morning, all six children disappeared and did not return. My Mimi-mistress found the story ridiculous, and attempted to channel her powers through my body to identify the meaning behind this piece of communication.

I, Gotterdammerung, noticed my almighty mistress' face briefly turn dark.

Like the slamming of a heavy door, her connection with I, Gotterdammerung, was severed for but a split, infinitesimal moment in time, where I found myself nearly falling through infinity before my consciousness was caught upon the arm of my almighty mistress' mind. My Mimi-mistress was back to smiling, as if nothing had ever happened. But when I opened the book, I noticed that the words had been contorted and changed into an incomplete star-cake recipe. I, Gotterdammerung, being the humblest and greatest of servants, did not question this usage of my mistress' power.

The final book was titled An Cailín sa Uiscedhathanna. My Mimi-mistress had trouble understanding the title of this particular text, even with her immortal powers, for it appeared to be written in a form of Faer that was much older. Nevertheless, I, Gotterdammerung, the greatest of all servants to a humble and wise mistress, took it upon myself to understand as much of the text as possible. A dusty tome, bits and pieces of it spoke of the story of a young princess who found herself in a foreign realm she had ruined mercilessly in her pursuit for the death of her enemies. My Mimi-mistress had her head tilted. Channeling her power, it was hard to make out, and my Mimi-mistress was tempted to think that this book was written in nonsense, or the message was spread out among multiple tales. A seemingly disconnected story told of a prince who would kill himself to move between worlds. The book became more and more incomprehensible. I, Gotterdammerung, asked my Mimi-mistress to note when we would be able to move on and discover more on the contents of the book found within the immortals' enormous hall.

. . . Fine fine.

She let out a childlike sigh and took out a third black licorice lollipop, placing it on her tongue. I, Gotterdammerung, leaped off the table and trailed behind my mistress, who was truly the greatest of mistresses. The books were left on the table, open.

Eventually, I, Gotterdammerung, noticed the congregation of the others contemplating what else to do in this empty library. My Mimi-mistress shuffled her feet in place a bit, placed her hands in her jacket pockets, and looked down. I, Gotterdammerung, cleared my throat.
My Mimi-mistress relayed this information to me, and channelled my being to relay this information to the collection of immortals that were present.

- - - - -

It is of course I that always feels the deepest connection with my mistress.​

I, Gotterdammerung, feel the thoughts of my mistress flow through me.



Mimi-mistress, in her travels, recalls the realm Twercania as a center for
studies, of the linguistic kind. I, Gotterdammerung, am in agreement,
from my limited, memory. It is possible that information on the book that the
Deviant Demoness had uncovered may be found in the realm my Mimi-mistress,
had previously, mentioned, however, it is to be warned that the immortal in
control of that particular territory is someone my Mimi-mistress,
considers very inappropriate. ​

Whew.

First, I am generally an atheist. Perhaps agnostic by virtue of understanding the complexity of the existence of concrete factors, even. This is irrelevant to the rest of the post but let this frame everything as you wish, my dears. I am sleepy, it is midnight, so please bear with this inconsistent post.

As Misty and Patman have addressed throughout the thread (and I will momentarily address), I do not feel much personal connection with the book. I am particularly apathetic towards the joke. However, I understand its implications for being offensive towards others. While it can certainly be considered a joke by some, I am not quite a fan of the negative intent it seemed to intentionally spark over social websites -- especially something such as volatile as Tumblr of all places -- knowing that individuals feel a connection of faith towards the book and this is highly disrespectful to their personal philosophy. It is true that people should take things as humorous as they can, and the like, and personally I feel the world may be all better for that. But this is unfortunately not the case, and people feel real enough connections or emotions to certain beliefs and the symbols that represent them to understandably feel offended at something, even if it were a joke. This is not restricted to religion, but restricted to many personal philosophies. Though some examples may make for some mismatched comparison, and well enough people consider their some of their thinking beyond a personal philosophy, the fundamental idea of offending a personal philosophy stays the same. I will address the implications of this in a bit. Hold on for the ride.

The fair point on religion is that it is essentially framed by years of personal interpretation. It is a series of philosophies that can be applied to a lifestyle but simultaneously inspired by it. It is part of the reason why many religions around the world have a billion and one different sects and interpretations and what have you, and the richness of all of these are a fun tantamount for the complexity of actual personal philosophies among people. Even then, we have a plethora of individuals who do not fit categories. Well enough we could consider every individual to be a unique being harbouring his or her own idiolect of a philosophy that is unique only to them alone, framed by experience and environment, but that goes deeper into questions of identity.

Regardless, understanding that it is the people that define beliefs themselves rather than the original works; it is these philosophies that constantly shift and turn and adjust the ideas of the people, and what have you, makes it fairly obvious that stereotyping a belief (or lack thereof) on the basis of original scriptures seems more a reflection on the assailant's own (rather negative) ideas of the belief in question. It is why the claim that "All Religion X-ers are bad lads" leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. What does it mean to be of the Religion X when philosophies and beliefs become that personal? Are you disliking the belief or the person, and if you are disliking the belief, are you expressing your dislike for it based on your own personal experiences with it?

So, I understand your offense, and I would no doubt feel perhaps a bit offended were I in your position. Not all Christians are hypocrites. Not all religious folks are hypocrites. People can be hypocrites, and religious folk are people first and foremost, and looking through the internet some comments occasionally forget this very basic tenet of humanity. But (as Patman mused about) this is part of why I decide to stay away from those sorts of lads and lassies.

Simply judging an entire belief based on a few factors that themselves are up to interpretation feels a bit silly to me when its current state worldwide is a great amorphous being consisting of a million different thoughts and practices. Some even blended together. My grandparents practiced a blend of Islam and Hinduism, actually. Religion, and personal philosophies, are as miscible as the individual believes or intends them to! So then, why would we generalize an entire system of belief based on one factor?

Secularism or not, the bitter spice of discrimination between people always manifests itself in different flavours. Inter-religious violence is fairly common; the Central African Republic is (very sadly) currently having its own numerous, very bloody problems regarding this as I type these words. Although the more widespread acceptance of atheism has made the dislike towards religion more visible, it seems to me simply another factor of "scaling up" the amount of secularism everywhere. With the few extremists there might be, there are still a good number of people who are highly tolerant of religion while still being secular. Arguably, some secular states (let us take Canada, or Sweden, for example), though they have had their share of religious tension in the past, contain groups that are generally free enough to express their religion -- their personal philosophy as individuals -- through the existence of a state that does not require the need of sticking to one or two beliefs.

Ah, as was said before, and by framing the OP's image, even with explanations, some people just see a certain situation nearly fundamentally differently, and explaining may do little. Misty's post has a good explanation of this. I also see a bit of this stonewalling in abortion debates, but that is another issue entirely.

Even symbolism rests in the individual, to some extent. It is why even in this thread we see differences behind the range of offense among our members. Wiping your bottom with the Bible or another such book is acceptable to some because they may feel little about diminishing its actual practices as it might just be a material representation of so-and-so and this ties into the previous point on personal interpretation. At the same time, it represents something different for other folks who take the book seriously. Now, you can wipe your backside with Leviticus and your neighbour might put it on a pedestal, those are your personal considerations for the Holy Book. The problem arises when lads and lassies in general seem to vocalize some kind of negative or even destructive intent with their practices. Sometimes this happens accidentally and one can hardly fault them for it. It is part of the difference between say, burning the Quran or accidentally saying something negative about Islam without knowing much of the social cues of the place. Social factors and social environment are what play a major part. Ross may have addressed this in his post as well but even if one has personal non-destructive beliefs about a particular factor, it may be wiser to not intentionally instigate something with the intent of negativity. Now you already addressed this enough in sixteen other posts so the point has been made.

Which is why the biggest thing I have to say about your comment here is not the above paragraph but rather my agreement in the trolling we see in the OP picture, pff.

But it really is up to interpretation at times. That being said, there are various levels of difference in intent and manipulation of social factors between things like the image in the original post, or Piss Christ, or Innocence of Muslims. But you know, all three things there have some level of controversy to them.

Like you mention later, this is advantageous to both practitioners of a world philosophy like religion, and the philosophy itself. It keeps things fresh, dynamic, and ever-accepting (mostly). Because these things become fairly personal, we see change and difference among different beliefs not only in groups of people but through different time periods as well.

Fair enough. Like was said previously, the difference lies in the negativity of intent through intentional manipulation of factors in a social environment with these things, but this runs into a slippery grey area. How far are we willing to go with expressing dislike or even hate with something? Should all of it be condoned under a freedom of expression, or only some? Are we willing to extend this towards personal philosophies?

Interesting article. I am not quite sure what to say about the actual removal of the teachers; in both cases it did not appear to be directly related to how they taught the class but rather previous circumstances/student reactions and threads, but I understand what you mean. It may have been a bit adventurous to teach a class the transience of symbolism among people in that very specific and personal manner, but I suppose it goes to show how deeply symbols can affect humans on a fundamental level. Fair warning to say that it is good to think for one's self, but even believing in symbolism is a personal thing that leads to personal interpretations. Not every Muslim sent death threats to that particular Floridian pastor who burned the Quran even if they felt an equally symbolic connection to it. Even then, that might be hard to compare, since personal philosophies are fairly individual things. But it obviously never justifies folks who make death threats and racist comments towards whom they believe is the offender. Something like that might even put them on the same level as the sort who intentionally offend, but situations like these really depend on the circumstances surrounding everything.

I understand what you are trying to say, and I generally do agree. But in the frame of this particular topic and your agreement with Patman on someone expressing how beliefs might be despicable, should we not extend hazardous beliefs to include those that might intentionally target or direct hate towards religions and other philosophies? Now, I am not talking about the joke picture in the OP, but again, it offers a grey area when one understands that much of the roots of calamitous situations on the basis of a characteristic lie in hazardous beliefs that are allowed to perpetuate. I have seen as many militant atheists and evangelicals alike.

This is a nice post (along with tummer's) because it frames the idea of personal philosophy regarding religion. Neither of you two explicitly restrict yourself to a particular church denomination but you still feel connections with parts of the belief you ascribe yourself to, which is a personal thing as an individual. Even if you identify as Christian, you still might have as many differences with your beliefs as say, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. But at the same time things like the OP post feel like an affront to what you believe in, even if it is an individual thing. It would be nice if more people tolerated all kinds of viewpoints on the spiritual, or even lack thereof.

Very nice point. Like I mentioned earlier, I have seen as many militant atheists as I have extreme evangelicals, at least on the internet. Maybe by its nature of pooling together similar-minded folks in small clusters, but there you go. Any extreme side of the coin is not fun to interact with, religious or not. Fundamentally it implies that it might be better in the long run for many to be more tolerant, but there you go.

Arguably, all humans possess an innate sense of ethical consideration, religious or not. In fact, the universality of some positive ethics in religions all across the world can just as easily be attributed to this innate humanism rather than the other way around. The personal ethics of folks are what helped perpetuate certain positive morals in religions. So a secular lad or lassie would have just as many personal restraints as a religious person. There are no explicit rules that stop me from badgering my mother to get me a glass of milk this instant, but I do not do that not because of any rules or laws but because I try my best to be considerate and understanding of others and I would not want my poor mother putting in all that effort for no reason. A sense of courtesy. Religion just serves to frame what already exists, more than anything, but it still exists even if you take it away.

Again, as the above implies, symbolism is powerful. Even if it might be for the best, or not for the best in the end, the power of symbolism still resonates among individuals today, and even in acknowledgement of symbolism one can still think individually and rationally, the difference being that their thoughts are framed by what they feel is so symbolic about the object in question.

I feel Pat's example there was simply to show how religion is up to personal interpretation, but he may have been clear with the other post.

See a few paragraphs above, friend; it may actually be the other way around in my view, but that does not devalue either religion or a secular individual's sense of ethics. It might complement both, actually.

Personal interpretation is truly what makes the cake of belief taste sweet.

Now now, this is golden, and it is nice to talk about different views like this. Debating is welcome anywhere here.

This is a good point on why religions and other things should generally continue on their path of individual interpretation, which happens passively by our very human nature. Many of the things written in scriptures from centuries ago, be they the Vedas or the Quran, generally deal with what was acceptable at the time. I have also noticed that many of these scriptures that justify certain practices actually have very rational bases to them. Shellfish being one example, Hinduism espouses the prohibition of beef because, among other reasons, cattle at the time of the religion's first steps were considered much more productive to the food supply if used for their milk rather than their meat.


In retrospect and looking over all the other things so far, it generally seems well enough to sum up the argument as tolerance of beliefs should be a thing, you are free to believe or disbelieve, but insulting or even, dare I say, attacking someone over some aspect of their character, personal philosophy or not, especially in the light of social circumstances that would most definitely lead to negative or offended reaction is simply not courteous. Free speech and everything yes, but there is a difference between expressing your disbelief to a person and expressing your disbelief to a person by hitting them over the head with something you know will offend them deeply and intentionally. Now, some people may interpret it all differently -- like I said, different philosophies are uniquely individual at times -- but unless you intentionally want to strike some controversy for whatever reason (like I assume the picture in the OP did, but it is the internet), it would be wiser to try one's best to acknowledge differences in belief and the social cues/circumstances that come with them, because some people might react to situations differently than others. Being offended by something is not limited to a book, either. There have been many times in the past where individuals can either joke about something, let us say, gruesome, or they can feel almost traumatized by it. Respect boundaries. Try to see other view points.

This also goes for:

This lovely point, where it is true that some people might see the world fundamentally to the extent that your consideration of an object or symbol might be different from another person's. In situations like these it might be best to try your hardest to be aware of social circumstances, or more importantly the circumstances of the person. Religious or not. They might be offended by that murder joke you made. It might not be your fault, you did not know. But if you do know something like that might get them, it seems odd to make it unless you truly want to prove some sort of point. The world has no reason to perpetuate excessive insensitivity when we can change it and it harms nobody.

While Putin has claimed they would be one of the most grandiose shows put on, all of the controversy surrounding the treatment of homosexuality (among other factors) is off-putting, I am slightly concerned about economic implications, and most importantly the very threats that this thread seem to be mentioning. The Olympics typically do have a huge amount of security, and I doubt that a repeat of Munich would occur especially with the government's understanding of heightened tensions and potentials for calamity around the region, but it would be the best to stay safe. I do typically enjoy both summer and winter Olympic events but to be honest I simply feel this particular one a tad bit unsettling.

There will no doubt be some sort of bolstered security around the entire city, both from the very fact that there were threats towards the venues and these events typically have bolstered security in the first place, and considering how Putin is using this as a way to show the power of a new Russia, I hardly feel he would want to be embarrassed by insurgents ruining the events. In some way or form, many Olympics in the past have been controversial (look at Beijing, for example), and at the very least the government would have sense on their head to know they must protect the venues and the city hosting them in line with the threats, especially in terms of self-interest.

Now, this leads to the problem of making sure that other places in the country are safe enough. It would not be dandy if there were attacks in Dagestan while folks were in the middle of ice hockey games. The administration needs to be on their toes to know well enough that hosting the Olympics can leave them vulnerable in both concentration of assets and future economic implications (which can either make it harder to deal with insurgency or simply incite it more). Understanding this, and understanding it well, might help reduce the atmosphere of nervousness a bit. Perhaps this very instance could help Putin show the international community that his nation can deal with insurgent threats effectively and efficiently. Let us hope that all individuals are safe when the events begin.